Virgin Media misselling cable services

fredalo

Hi all,
I have read several posts about VM retention period and disconnection fees.. Please find below my story..

I relocated to thee UK last August and, after finding an house, I had to look for broadband services.

After some research I almost decided to go for VM, but I was not really convinced of the contract length. Therefore, I called them and a very nice guy assured me that if I was ever going to move in an area where VM cable services weren't available, I would have not be forced to pay any disconnection fee... He told me he was going to add this information on my account and blah blah..

After few hours I was a new happy VM customer...

Now, after 12 months, I need to move house.. My new house is in an area where VM cable services are not available.. So, I thought, let's call them to double check and, in case, to cancel the contract..

First person I spoke with was keen to accept my request, she offered me to consider ADSL VM services, but she said that, if I didn't want to accept, she would have cancelled my contract. Unfortunately she told me she needed to call me back to finalise this action..

After not receiving any call, I called them back the day after.. The second person had a different approach.. I soon found out that he wasn't very keen in accepting my request.. he told me it wasn't possible to cancel the contract and he apologied for what I was told by his colleague the day before and by the account manager who convinced me to sign the contract..

I told him that his apologies were very nice, but in regards to the account manager, convincing a client with lies is not only a bad practice, but a criminal offence..

To make a long story short, he didn't want to proceed with the termination of my contract, he passed me through his supervisor, who apologied and confirmed they weren't going to terminate my contract without a disconnection fee..

Anyway, I've learned some interesting information about VM contact center..

1- They are based in Manila, Philippines.. Therefore they store and process UK personal data outside of EU. This is in contrast with the Data Protection Act 1998.

2- They record and store all the phone calls to check what has been said - Therefore they store and process UK sensitive data (for example I gave sensitive information about myself during the call) and they don't record calls only on a random basis in order to improve the quality of the service, as they declare when you call them.

3) The supervisor admitted and adknowledged that, sometimes, account managers give incorrect information to clients in regards to disconnection fees.

I am going to report them to the Information Commissioner's Office, Watchdog and Ombudsman.. but, in the short term, I'm trying to find a solution to my problem (avoid paying the disconnection fee)..

Reading posts on this subject I found the following ideas:

1- upgrade my current virgin services and then cancel within a few days as it constitutes a new contract.

2- move to the new house, sign a new ADSL broadband contract, and then cancel within a few days.

What do you think?

Many thanks,
Freddy

kwikbreaks

I think you are on a hiding to nothing. In an ideal world the verbal contract you made with the original salesrep would stand and you'd be able to cancel without paying the early termination fee.

In the real world VM will wriggle out - perhaps by pointing out that there is no disconnect fee but there is an early termination fee or maybe some other way - for instance I doubt you have any proof of the verbal alteration to their standard contract.

Still in this world if you don't pay they'll pass on the debt to a credit collection agency and your credit record will be trashed.

My advice is pay up. Don't mess with any scheme to accept and cancel a new contract as that will just increase the cost.

mincedump

"1- They are based in Manila, Philippines.. Therefore they store and process UK personal data outside of EU. This is in contrast with the Data Protection Act 1998.

2- They record and store all the phone calls to check what has been said - Therefore they store and process UK sensitive data (for example I gave sensitive information about myself during the call) and they don't record calls only on a random basis in order to improve the quality of the service, as they declare when you call them."


The data is stored in the UK, and can be accessed via an intranet, not all call centres are based in Manila and dpa law states that "Personal data shall not be transferred to a country or territory outside the EEA unless that country or territory ensures an adequate level of protection for the rights and freedoms of data subjects in relation to the processing of personal data"

If you want you can pay them for an account disclosure.

fredalo

"The data is stored in the UK, and can be accessed via an intranet, not all call centres are based in Manila and dpa law states that "Personal data shall not be transferred to a country or territory outside the EEA unless that country or territory ensures an adequate level of protection for the rights and freedoms of data subjects in relation to the processing of personal data"

Hi, I believe that if they record any phone calls then the data is stored locally in Manila..
However, they need to provide evidence that the call centre infrastructure is compliant with the requirements for storing personal and sensitive data..

This is strictly related to my job and I can assure you that it is quite unlikely that a data centre in Manila is compliant..

Anyway I will report this to the Informaton Commissioner's Office.. it will be investigated by the ICO.. and I can save 10£ for account disclosure..

mincedump

The call centre wouldn't be open if it was not compliant and unfortunately for you virgin would have made sure that they have strict dpa and have checked all this beforehand, this centre has been open for a long time.

Plus a copy of your contract is sent out to you in the post which would have stated the contract term, if the sales person did deceive you wouldn't that have been the time to bring it up when you received this?

fredalo

I have to disagree with your first statement.. Sometime even big multinational companies could act in contrast to the regulatory and law requirements.. From Google to Amazon, there are lots of examples.. If you visit the ICO website you will find even more facts..

On the other hand, I agree with your second statement. I should have checked better the terms and conditions and I should have brought it up when I received the contract. My bad..

But this doesn't take away the fact that I've been mis-sold the service.. and that VM should be fined over breach of misconduct in relation to mis-selling..

Maybe, at the end, I will pay the early disconnection fee, because of my foolishness.. ... but I will not stop reporting them and seeking for justice..

fredalo

kwikbreaks wrote: »

I think you are on a hiding to nothing. In an ideal world the verbal contract you made with the original salesrep would stand and you'd be able to cancel without paying the early termination fee.

In the real world VM will wriggle out - perhaps by pointing out that there is no disconnect fee but there is an early termination fee or maybe some other way - for instance I doubt you have any proof of the verbal alteration to their standard contract.

Still in this world if you don't pay they'll pass on the debt to a credit collection agency and your credit record will be trashed.

My advice is pay up. Don't mess with any scheme to accept and cancel a new contract as that will just increase the cost.

(thank you for replying on many forums I will post this answer on both as well)

You are right, I won't stop paying or messing around with my credit record..

As I said, maybe at the end I will pay the early disconnection fee, because of my foolishness..

In an ideal world no VM account manager would have mis-sold a service to clients..

In a real world you should check terms and conditions in any contracts and you shouldn't believe to account managers (now I've learned this).. but you also should fight for your rights and do whatever is possible to get justice..

I come from a country where everyone thinks that "in this real world", even if you are right, you won't get anything if you start fighting against big companies or against the government burocracy... that it is just better and easier to accept abuses and miconducts.. Despite this, I have always fought for my rights..

I won't stop now..

macman

There is no 'disconnection fee' charged by VM. What you are paying is an an early termination charge. Different things. The former would apply regardless of contract length. The later is imposed only if you are still within minimum term and wish to terminate your contract. VM contracted to supply you only at the current address, not at your new one.
If you have been with them 12m or more, how long was your original minimum term (normally 12m)?

fredalo

macman wrote: »

There is no 'disconnection fee' charged by VM. What you are paying is an an early termination charge. Different things. The former would apply regardless of contract length. The later is imposed only if you are still within minimum term and wish to terminate your contract. VM contracted to supply you only at the current address, not at your new one.
If you have been with them 12m or more, how long was your original minimum term (normally 12m)?

You are right, they asked for an early termination fee.
Exactly what the sales person, who convinced me in the first place, assured me that it wouldn't have been applied if I moved within minimum term in an area where VM cable services weren't available..

When I signed the contract the minimum term was 18 months. (and this is why I specifically asked the sales guy what would have happened if I terminated the contract within the minimum term)

As I said, I probably will end up paying... but I don't like dishonesty... and I'm going to do something...

ALIBOBSY

I wouldn't bother with the phone, I had some issues with virgin mobile billing and the customer service reps were mostly useless. Email or write to the CEO's office. I did and they were brilliant, sorted things out to my satisfaction.

I can find the email address for you if you would like it?
I reckon an official complaint to the top will result in them just waiving the fee.

Ali x

fredalo

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

I wouldn't bother with the phone, I had some issues with virgin mobile billing and the customer service reps were mostly useless. Email or write to the CEO's office. I did and they were brilliant, sorted things out to my satisfaction.

I can find the email address for you if you would like it?
I reckon an official complaint to the top will result in them just waiving the fee.

Ali x

Thanks Ali, that would be great!!