Help with making a POPLA appeal against Parking Eye

Spare_Me_A_Dime

Hi

I posted here a few weeks ago when I was landed with a PE fine for an unlawful 40 min stay in one of their car parks.

I fired off Stroma's PE template reply letter and now they've replied saying the appeal has been rejected and have provided the relevant POPLA code and appeal forms.

I was hoping that if this was all a scam it would fall apart at this point. I wasn't expecting to actually recieve the POPLA code. Is this really genuine or are they bluffing? And if I do now have to make a POPLA appeal, on what grounds do I base it? As I said last time I posted, I have no mitigating circumstances and reading the information on POPLA's website about the grounds on which you can appeal, none of them really seem to apply.

All I can think of is to claim that PE are only entitled to the original ticket cost and don't have the right to make me pay the fine, but is this really enough to go on?

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Oh and is there any chance anyone's got a template POPLA appeal up their sleeve?

Guys_Dad

Spare_Me_A_Dime wrote: »

Hi

I posted here a few weeks ago when I was landed with a PE fine for an unlawful 40 min stay in one of their car parks.

I fired off Stroma's PE template reply letter and now they've replied saying the appeal has been rejected and have provided the relevant POPLA code and appeal forms.

I was hoping that if this was all a scam it would fall apart at this point. I wasn't expecting to actually recieve the POPLA code. Is this really genuine or are they bluffing? And if I do now have to make a POPLA appeal, on what grounds do I base it? As I said last time I posted, I have no mitigating circumstances and reading the information on POPLA's website about the grounds on which you can appeal, none of them really seem to apply.

All I can think of is to claim that PE are only entitled to the original ticket cost and don't have the right to make me pay the fine, but is this really enough to go on?

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Oh and is there any chance anyone's got a template POPLA appeal up their sleeve?

You must have been the only one who thought that they would fold with stroma's appeal.
It wasn't supposed to - it was to do what it has done - got your POPLA code.

Templates - have a read of the Popla Decisions sticky on this forum that have been successful.

See also post #6 here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4663367

See what paragraphs in post #33 here can help https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4596057

Check the NTK and ticket meets the criteria here http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

There's a start.

Umkomaas

Perhaps a salutary reminder for any newbie, if you tangle with PE, here are your choices.

Pay up - if you intend doing this, why have you come to MSE?

Ignore - likelihood is you're going to receive a Letter Before Action, which will need some rebuffing (and can still end up with court papers - see below).

Ignore - you are likely to receive court papers that you will need to file a (forum assisted) defence for - with some serious work for the OP to do to get that in place. And if you go to court even with a good defence, then there's no guarantee how the judge will decide. No real cases yet to determine any pattern.

Soft challenge to PE with the sole intention of getting a POPLA code. The chances of a successful challenge (unless you can copy them receipts for the retailer they infest) are virtually nil. At this stage (where the OP on this thread is), you cannot and must not put your head in the sand and hope this will go away. The time awaiting the POPLA code must be spent doing lots of research and getting a very good understanding about what all this is, and start preparing the points you will use in your POPLA appeal.

Just coming on here shouting 'Help' at this stage with no idea about what you're going to put to POPLA, is complacent and puts unnecessary pressure on people who are pretty stretched trying to help everyone who comes here.

Remember - it is YOUR ticket, YOUR problem and YOU'VE got to put the effort in to get it revoked - and POPLA is your best bet - so please don't just sit back and expect US to do it all for you.

We will help, but helping those who help themselves makes it more likely that between us we can win.

Spare_Me_A_Dime

Thanks Guys Dad.

Jesus, that POPLA decisions thread is pretty confusing. So it seems then that all I can base the appeal on is rather untintelligible legal jargon regarding their ownership of the land and lack of rights to issue fines and my not entering into a written contract with them. I don't know, that all seems pretty woolly to me. Especially when people who've had more mitigating circumstances in their favour have had their appeals rejected. Should I just make something up in the POPLA appeal, like I was waiting for my disabled mother-in-law or something similar? It's not in my nature to be decieitful (then again, I did knowing park illegally) but this is starting to really worry me now. I mean, what even happens if the POPLA appeal is rejected?

Also, I like the post #6 template letter in the other thread. Would there be any use in sending that off to Parking Eye now given that the first appeal (Stroma's template letter) was rejected?

Umkomaas

No lies, will blow up in your face spectacularly.

Mitigation doesn't work - don't waste any breath or typing on it.

You've missed so much time to bone up on all of this by hoping PE would either buckle under the 'weight' of your initial appeal or would just forget it. No chance.

So without staying awake all night you do have a bit of time to read some more and start seeing how winning points raised in POPLA appeals might apply in your situation. When does your 28 day window for POPLA appeal expire?

Coupon-mad

Spare_Me_A_Dime wrote: »

I was hoping that if this was all a scam it would fall apart at this point. I wasn't expecting to actually recieve the POPLA code.

Really? Even though almost every other thread you see here has people taking on and beating Parking Eye at POPLA and NEVER Shows them cancelling early on unless a person has sent a copy receipt for a Store on site? You need to read other people's threads to see this situation played out time and again on here, it would have helped you if you'd read some before as you would have known what to expect and could have been reading up on POPLA threads in advance. You had a month or so to be reading and preparing your POPLA appeal and you've missed that time now...never mind you have a few days now presumably.

Spare_Me_A_Dime wrote: »

And if I do now have to make a POPLA appeal, on what grounds do I base it?

Same basis as every other PE POPLA thread on here, pretty much. Read a few (not just the 'POPLA decisions' thread. Search for and read other people's POPLA threads and cobble something together like most newbies do, we can then fine tune it).

Spare_Me_A_Dime wrote: »

As I said last time I posted, I have no mitigating circumstances and reading the information on POPLA's website about the grounds on which you can appeal, none of them really seem to apply.

Really? Methinks you took it far too literally because all points of appeal relate to any case except the 'stolen' one:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/secret-reasons-you-can-use-in-your.html

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla/

Spare_Me_A_Dime wrote: »

All I can think of is to claim that PE are only entitled to the original ticket cost and don't have the right to make me pay the fine, but is this really enough to go on?

Oh and is there any chance anyone's got a template POPLA appeal up their sleeve?

Plenty of template POPLA appeals posted everywhere, why not read other threads & copy & paste the examples you see? Search the forum for 'POPLA' and read some threads. We don't expect you to think up some points off the top of your head but it would be nice to see a draft appeal that you'd cobbled together from reading other threads. We can help more if we see an appeal you have written because we don't have the ticket in front of us, you do, and you know the car park and the dates of your Notices so only you can know if the ticket and time sent was compliant (simply compare it to the Parking Cowboys link already given for you), only you know whether it was a store or Retail Park or Service Station, etc., and whether you have a receipt, etc. But do not name the driver of course, as you will see on the examples you find your appeal should say 'the driver...' not 'I'.

Just posting a link to a random template hardly helps you to understand what exactly you are appealing about...reading threads does help you to see what happens, other people's experiences - and you will notice a pattern in all the POPLA appeals you find posted on recent threads.

Guys_Dad

The point is, that you did it (whatever the "it" is).

It's someone's land and they have made the stupid decision to appoint a PPC to make up rules that you need to obey if you want to use their land or rules to keep you off it.

OK. So the PPC does that and waits to make profits from those that break these "rules".

So if you did it, how do you hope to avoid paying these charges? Mitigation? Don't make me laugh. Everyone they let off costs them money and their income comes from those who pay.

POPLA was set up by the Parking Industry on the basis that the right to charge you is fair. However, there has to be some rules for the PPCs as well. And unfortunately for them, these must incorporate the legislative conditions set up by POFA2012.

And that's where you try to win - at POPLA. You put the PPCs to the test by challenging their rights to make these charges. Hence the legal nature of the various points of appeal.

Now, that's it in a nutshell. Get the Lions and Andy Murray spirit in you, be uplifted by the great weather and if others can do it, why not you?
(strains of "Land of Hope and Glory" in the background)

Spare_Me_A_Dime

I'm really sorry if anyone feels I'm wasting people's timeon here. When I asked if anyone had a template POPLA appeal I could use, I wasonly being cheeky. I'm perfectlyprepared to do the groundwork to mount my own POPLA defence however as someonenot all familiar with the finer details of the law on private parking, a fewhelpful pointers in the right direction are most welcome.

Additionally, as someone who suffers from clinical anxiety,having to sort all this out and deal with an evil company who will use anydevious tactic they can think of to scam you blind all day long for the sake ofa quick buck, I find utterly demoralising and depressing. Just symptomatic of asick and corrupt society. And having all this hanging over my head and not reallybeing able to get a simple, straight answer anywhere is also causing me to losesleep.

Ironically, discovering this forum and that some peopleactually want to help you rather than rip you off was one of the only thingshelping maintain my belief in the basic goodness of people.

Coupon-mad

Spare_Me_A_Dime wrote: »

I'm really sorry if anyone feels I'm wasting people's timeon here. When I asked if anyone had a template POPLA appeal I could use, I wasonly being cheeky. I'm perfectlyprepared to do the groundwork to mount my own POPLA defence however as someonenot all familiar with the finer details of the law on private parking, a fewhelpful pointers in the right direction are most welcome.

Additionally, as someone who suffers from clinical anxiety,having to sort all this out and deal with an evil company who will use anydevious tactic they can think of to scam you blind all day long for the sake ofa quick buck, I find utterly demoralising and depressing. Just symptomatic of asick and corrupt society. And having all this hanging over my head and not reallybeing able to get a simple, straight answer anywhere is also causing me to losesleep.

Ironically, discovering this forum and that some peopleactually want to help you rather than rip you off was one of the only thingshelping maintain my belief in the basic goodness of people.

Aha, you should have said earlier and I wouldn't have been so...dismissive (sorry but we type these out in our own time soooo often and the info really is all here)!

And we don't think you are wasting our time BUT we do encourage most people to read other threads as it helps you, rather than just being given links which I don't think always helps.

But...your case and your need for help is a bit different then...I do try to take more time to write appeals out when people have medical conditions as yours, if you need more help shout and don't lose sleep!

Try cobbling something together from these then but bear in mind it's your ticket, your local car park and you have the detail and we don't (and I don't think you've said if it was a shop or a service station or what the incident was - overstay? Do you have receipts? If not a shop, what was the car park?):

First example, see post no 4 here which I wrote on pepipoo as SchoolRunMum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79545&st=0&gopid=826768

Post #11 here summarises what to think about including, and post #21 has a POPLA appeal regarding a similar camera fake PCN:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4645375

and this one is relevant to you because a long term condition means you are protected by the Equality Act 2010, but you would have to re-word it so as NOT to admit who was driving and just say that 'the driver' has a long-term medical condition...blah...blah...in similar terms to the first paragraph here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62187053#Comment_62187053

Don't rush this. Read these again tomorrow and then when ready this week, post up your version worded in the third person about 'the driver'.

Spare_Me_A_Dime

I'd just like to thank you all for your advice. I just feelcompletely overwhelmed by all this at the moment. And only being able to researchit all occasionally on library computers and at friend's houses doesn't exactlyhelp.

But bear with me, I just have one more question I'd like toask (and you've inevitably answered it before, so I apologise), but what arethe consequences of a POPLA appeal being rejected? Will I just be left with no otheroption but to pay up (when the fine will no doubt be even bigger)? If this isthe case, the way I feel at the moment I'd be more inclined just to pay upright now.

Oh and to answer some of your earlier questions, the 40 minutestay was caught on entry and exit cameras in just a normal PE-run (not owned) carpark (not a retail complex or supermarket, etc). And the only reason ithappened was because of my ignorance of PE, the fact that it had always been afree car park before and because it was late at night I thought I could getaway with it (I know, I feel quite bad about that, especially as I considermyself a pretty ethical person, but then I don't really want to give money to acompany that acts even more unethically than I did).

Guys_Dad

POPLA decisions are only binding on the PPC, so you don't need to pay up. Logically, they will come after you and may decide to go to court.

You have every chance of winning POPLA with our help but please run your final appeal through a trustworthy source on here first.

If you did lose, we would look at the reasons the adjudicator gave and then honestly advise whether to settle up or go to court. Sometimes the adjudicators have made mistakes in law and on here and pepipoo there are really clued up people who can really help.

But it's not life or death, just some money.

The only time you would need to worry would be if you lost in court and didn't settle or agree payment plan. That's where CCJs and bailiffs come in, but not until.

So sleep easy.