Ticket from Excel - advice please

phy7tes

Hello,

I've been reading lots on this, both old and new posts and could do with the latest advice please!

I recently received a 'Parking Charge Notice' from Excel Parking after I went out for dinner with my wife and unknowingly parked in one of 'their' car parks for an hour and a half before driving home. The car park was almost empty at the time and I genuinely did not see any signs, thus I did not buy a ticket.

The charge is £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.

Should I ignore / dispute or apply the militant approach as defined on the MSE site?

Thanks very much in advance.

Ric02k13

Hi, ive got the exact same problem. Parked on a retail park two weeks later excel send me a pcn with anpr. Should i ignore? i have one day left before the 14 days are up.
Thanks for ppls advice up front

Coupon-mad

You do what everyone else does and read a few threads on the forum to get the hang of sending a short challenge and then (when rejected) you work on a strong POPLA appeal. You'll know what I mean (and what POPLA is and what's involved) just by reading lets say, the top dozen recent threads near yours!

The 14 days (discount, LOL!!!!!) means NOTHING because you won't be lining Simon Renshaw-Smith's pockets at all. Google him and Excel and 'captain clampit'! Also look at the Excel v Martin Cutts case online.

Ric02k13

thanks for your quick response am i ok using this as a challange template? About to send one via email now. Thanks again
Name
Address

Date

Dear Scammers,

In regards to the invoice received with ref number xxxxxx dated xxxxxx, the keeper denies all liability to your company, if you reject this challenge the keeper requires within 35 days a popla verification code for them to appeal independently, per Version 2 of the BPA Code of Practice.

The keeper has nothing further to add, and will not respond to any correspondence from your company unless it contains the popla code. If you wish to find out why the keeper rejects all liability, pay the £27 plus vat to popla to find out

The challenge will be deemed accepted if there is no popla code on any rejection that you supply within the timeframe stipulated above.

Yours Faithfully

Your name (printed)

Coupon-mad

Yes but you don't actually call them scammers of course, not to their face anyway!

And you need your own thread once you get their template rejection reply.

Ric02k13

ill try not to call them scammers. Thanks ill send the email and post a new thread when its rejected.
Found another one that would seem to make them back down. Does the wording of the challange actually matter or is it all about them bothering with the popla code?



Dear Sir/Madam


I refer to your Contractual Parking Charge Notice number: XXXXXXX

I am unable to confirm at this stage if I was the driver of the vehicle at the date shown. I cannot think of any action of mine that may have contributed to the alleged contractual contravention and cannot remember entering into any parking contract with you.

I am therefore unable to make an informed appeal against the circumstances since I am unsure if it was me that agreed any contract with you, although I certainly don't recall doing so. I am unwilling to make any payment on notification from a company I do not know, for an amount I cannot remember agreeing to, on a contract I didn't have any knowledge of.

I will not make payment for any speculative demand without proof of the existence of any supposed contract between us, and your legal right to make such a contract with me in the first place. If you would kindly send details as follows I will then be able to properly consider this matter fully and my own liability for any alleged contractual breach:



Proof of your right to make a contract with a driver using the said car park facility. This to be in the form of landowner rights such as a copy of the land deeds, any contract with the landowner giving you the right of occupation of the land rather than a right of access for monitoring the said area, or a lease agreement for the land in question.

A copy of the contract between yourself and the landlord showing your responsibilities in monitoring the car park on their behalf, and your right to pursue any matter to legal proceedings if no payment is forthcoming.

A copy of any contract that you allege exists between yourself or landowner client and me; such contract to be shown to have been properly offered and then accepted by me or any other driver who may have been involved in this matter.

The reasoning of the alleged contravention. Please advise as to whether this alleged offence was supposedly for a Breach of a Contractual Parking arrangement or for Trespass. If no contractual agreement was made or accepted by either party, then an explanation as to why you consider trespass was committed in an area where there is free access by the landowner to members of the public.

In the unlikely event that you do have full rights to make contracts with individual drivers, either on behalf of the landowner, or at your own behest due to some contractual arrangement with your client, then I need a breakdown of what charges have been made in connection with the alleged contravention or trespass and how they have been calculated in accordance with the necessity to make a charge for a known financial loss to the landowner.
I am aware of the legal aspects of the monitoring of such premises and am keen to avoid any doubt as to whether or not you have a legal right to demand payment, and whether I am equally liable to make that payment as demanded.

I am also aware of the existence of various cases in courts which have shown that the vast majority of such demands are made by companies who have no authority to make them in the first place, so I need to remove that doubt in this case to progress it any further.

Failure to provide the information requested in support of your claim will mean that I will not consider this particular charge to have any merit and will therefore refuse payment accordingly. It may also carry the consequence of a complaint being made for harassment if demands continue in any form if you do not send me the information requested.
Yours faithfully

Cheers!

Coupon-mad

Yep that will do the job, but you'd be better to re-post it on a new thread that you can then update. This is phy7tes' thread.

phy7tes

Hi,

Apologies, I thought there had been no replies to this as I hadn't subscribed to the thread!

I still haven't acted upon this, the 14 day discount ends imminently. I've read lots of threads and I am honestly still confused about the best way forward. I've just been reading threads re: notice to keeper and wonder if this is relevant to me as the PCN is addressed to the keeper (my wife) although I was driving.

I'm tempted to just pay the fine rather than get involved in too much admin over all this, my time is quite precious! Happy to be talked out of this though if I can get the basic steps and links to the format / examples provided.

Coupon-Mad, you mention sending an initial short challenge. Is there a template to this? Should it be emailed or posted? Should I confirm the actual driver or is this a total no no?

I'm happy to send a few emails / letters and ignore various false threats, however if I am likely to have to go to a small claims court then I'd rather just pay now and save myself the time. Just to be clear, I didn't buy a ticket at all!

Thanks

Coupon-mad

phy7tes wrote: »

Hi,

Apologies, I thought there had been no replies to this as I hadn't subscribed to the thread!

I still haven't acted upon this, the 14 day discount ends imminently. I've read lots of threads and I am honestly still confused about the best way forward. I've just been reading threads re: notice to keeper and wonder if this is relevant to me as the PCN is addressed to the keeper (my wife) although I was driving.

I'm tempted to just pay the fine rather than get involved in too much admin over all this, my time is quite precious! Happy to be talked out of this though if I can get the basic steps and links to the format / examples provided.

Coupon-Mad, you mention sending an initial short challenge. Is there a template to this? Should it be emailed or posted? Should I confirm the actual driver or is this a total no no?

I'm happy to send a few emails / letters and ignore various false threats, however if I am likely to have to go to a small claims court then I'd rather just pay now and save myself the time. Just to be clear, I didn't buy a ticket at all!

Thanks

OK there will be no small claims court if you simply send the couple of emails or letters needed to win this at POPLA.

Don't pay it! This is a scam fake PCN and is easy to knock on the head.

For the initial challenge you could use one like Ric02k13 posted above (the longer one is better IMHO as I think a challenge should say a bit more than 'the keeper denies all liability to your company'). I think at the very least a short challenge should say something by way of an appeal, like:

'I fail to see how there was any loss caused by the driver parking the car that day and so this charge is punitive and unenforceable in law'

or

'After getting your Notice I have specifically checked the signs you are intending to rely upon and they do not comply with the BPA Code of Practice'.

That would do, or just copy & paste an example soft appeal as shown in the links here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=80125&st=20&start=20

You will notice at no point do any examples say who was driving nor imply it. Write in the third person about 'the driver' and 'the car' and it should have the registered keeper's name at the bottom (no need to use real signature if writing snail mail). Writing as the registered keeper NOT the driver protects your position at the moment and gives you more appeal points for POPLA stage. You can use email if the fake PCN says you can 'appeal' that way!

Finally, did you receive the postal fake PCN within 14 days of the incident?

phy7tes

Thanks Coupon-Mad.

I've sent the initial response to Excel by email and received an automated response asking for the following:

1) The PARKING NOTICE SERIAL NUMBER This can be found in the top right hand corner of the Notice and will be prefixed, SERIAL No. XL/____________.

2) A FULL POSTAL ADDRESS that we can correspond with, as all decisions are conveyed in a letter to the motorist.

3) The FULL NAME of the motorist.

I've provided 1) and 2) but not 3) as advised. Should I send a further response or ignore?

The automated response says that they are unable to process the challenge / appeal unless they have all three items.

Thanks in advance.

ps. the PCN was received within 14 days of the incident.

Stroma

phy7tes wrote: »

Thanks Coupon-Mad.

I've sent the initial response to Excel by email and received an automated response asking for the following:

1) The PARKING NOTICE SERIAL NUMBER This can be found in the top right hand corner of the Notice and will be prefixed, SERIAL No. XL/____________.

2) A FULL POSTAL ADDRESS that we can correspond with, as all decisions are conveyed in a letter to the motorist.

3) The FULL NAME of the motorist.

I've provided 1) and 2) but not 3) as advised. Should I send a further response or ignore?

The automated response says that they are unable to process the challenge / appeal unless they have all three items.

Thanks in advance.

ps. the PCN was received within 14 days of the incident.

They don't need to know who the driver was, you can be dealing with as the RK of the vehicle. So ignore it