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Water Bill debts -is it illegal for them to cut you off

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  • Thinking about this, it does mean that someone who isnt bothered about ccjs etc would never need bother paying a water bill!!!

    Yes & No - I believe that they can "throttle" the supply severely.
  • mart.vader
    mart.vader Posts: 714 Forumite
    edited 8 July 2013 at 9:43AM
    Yes & No - I believe that they can "throttle" the supply severely.

    They don't "throttle" the supply anymore. They used to do it, but now don't. Not sure if it's against the law or just policy.

    Edit: To answer the OP's implied question, AFAIK the only way W Co's can enforce bill payment, is to take you to court. Whether you are bothered about CCJ's or not is up to you, but there may be costs, costs and more costs.
  • samsmoot
    samsmoot Posts: 736 Forumite
    Thinking about this, it does mean that someone who isnt bothered about ccjs etc would never need bother paying a water bill!!!
    Oh yes!!! Works very well for me.
  • kirkbyinfurnesslad_2
    kirkbyinfurnesslad_2 Posts: 2,340 Forumite
    edited 9 July 2013 at 7:47AM
    samsmoot wrote: »
    Oh yes!!! Works very well for me.

    Interesting. Have they tried to get a CCJ against u?
    Proud to be a member of the Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Gang.:D:T
  • samsmoot
    samsmoot Posts: 736 Forumite
    Interesting. Have they tried to get a CCJ against u?
    Lots of threatening letters: I simply dispute the charges and that stalls it. Rinse and repeat.

    I do actually have a valid reason for not paying, but that's a recent discovery - I'm in a HMO and the landlord is legally responsible for the charges according to what I have read.

    The main thrust of my non-compliance is that I have no money to pay for water charges because I am on benefit and therefore have a fixed income which only covers certain needs - water not being one of them.

    If it went to court I cannot really see a decision in my favour, but it is a genuine defence: I cannot pay money out which I do not have and cannot obtain - even if a judgement was made against me - the government has restricted my ability to pay water charges because they provide no allowance by which to pay water charges. Ask the DWP, they'll tell you what benefit covers.

    And you can always stall things by asking for help from their charitable trusts, by complaining to OFWAT or the CCW, by querying bills, letters, making complaints etc.

    The main thing to do is to keep up correspondence no matter what you have to make up in order to get things moving as slowly as possible. The other thing to do is realise that you have more power than them and that they have to dance to your tune - unless you have a lot to lose and have no stomach for a fight. This is one instance when poverty is more powerful than riches.
  • anotheruser
    anotheruser Posts: 3,485 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    And what's your excuse for not being able to work?
    And can you tell me why I, working as an honest citizen, should pay for you to pay your water bill?
    I would think I could find a saving somewhere to pay.

    Querying bills, OFWAT and whatever is abusing the service and wasting their time. If people stopped doing this, it would be a lot better!
  • samsmoot
    samsmoot Posts: 736 Forumite
    And can you tell me why I, working as an honest citizen, should pay for you to pay your water bill?

    This explains all:

    samsmoot wrote: »
    OOH! I got another mention!

    Avoiding paying water charges due to failing to provide information will never be actionable in either a civil or criminal court. Just saying.

    As for encouraging non-payment, imagine if a thief stole or tried to steal your money then when you got it back from them or refused to give it to them the thief then insisted you give it them instead. The thieves being Severn Trent, the attempted theft done by South Staffs.

    You can look for my comments re the above on here, and another consumer forum, but my situation was that they (SS) said they would take me to court to get me ordered by a judge to pay money I did not owe. When I welcomed them to do so they chickened out because they can't obtain advance charges if challenged with a proper Defence, which mine would have been. So now the lying scumbags don't get a penny from me.

    As for my friend's situation, she now also pays nothing after challenging ST via the courts. A judge made JCP pay back over £400 which they and Severn Trent had conspired to steal from her. So don't nobody tell me about criminal deception - I know what that looks like and it looks like these two instances of fraudulence.

    The amusing thing is, after ST/DWP paid back the money, ST wanted more (obviously). They threatened County Court so a letter was sent saying they should ask JCP for Third Party Deductions to be made (the correct procedure - this time). So, JCP, being sh*t scared of putting another foot wrong, first asked my friend to sign a form agreeing to the Deductions being made: no signy no takey.

    And so...no signature, no deductions, no court, no letters to my friend - they write to 'the occupier' instead. They started it, and then got stuffed good and proper.

    Other bill payers may lose out financially - I suggest you all write to OFWAT and get some compensation due to your water company's fraudulent activity alienating customers and causing them to keep the money as compensation for all of the harassment, distress, inconvenience, wasted time; expenses such as bus fares, train fares, taxi fares, paper, envelopes printing, stamps, recorded delivery; and the sheer darn cheek.

    Plus a little extra as an ex-gratia payment will do nicely, thanks.
    samsmoot wrote: »
    I suggest you lobby your MP to get the law changed if you don't like the results of the current one.

    Or do you think that failing to communicate with a water company is actually a criminal offence? Or that not telling the whole truth is actionable? I don't believe anyone's comments on this thread suggest doing anything criminal - we can leave that up to the water companies. Severn Trent's getting fined £47,000,000 for lying to the Regulator springs to mind as a start.

    And here's something else: unlawful Third Party Deductions are still being taken from the poor, often without their knowledge. You won't see this in the papers, and you won't see it on here too much either. Don't forget - folks on here are what you would call literate and capable - most of the poor (unfortunately and disgracefully) are uneducated and inept. Those that are able to identify a problem seldom can effectively deal with it - hence my involvement and the court claim - only way it could be done and I was the only one willing and able to do it. Crime-busting of this type should not be left to chancers like me.

    I personally know of at least two other instances of TPDs being unlawfully made, and help and advice have been offered - but apathy is also often a symptom of poverty.

    Do you all not get that there is a criminal conspiracy going on right under your noses? Or is it just that it is so much easier to have a go at those individuals who fail to adhere to your high standards of veracity?

    You worry about the rest of you paying more - how selfish is that? Your few pennies matter more than the criminal conspiracy? No care that that the big boys are screwing the poor and getting away with it? Certainly looks like it.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4690659
  • anotheruser
    anotheruser Posts: 3,485 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    Didn't bother reading all of it as I expected a couple of sentences.
    I don't mind being honest and working for what I have in life, seems you do.
  • samsmoot
    samsmoot Posts: 736 Forumite
    Didn't bother reading all of it as I expected a couple of sentences.
    I don't mind being honest and working for what I have in life, seems you do.

    I don't care that you think I am dishonest, but it slightly disappoints me that you don't care a jot about the conspiracy to defraud the poor and vulnerable, which I have mentioned many times throughout this board, and which is the reason I refuse to pay.

    Your being honest and working for what you have is commendable - and if you think that's sufficient, then fine. But what about the ripped-off poor? Who is trying to make the crooks answerable? It's not you, by the looks of it, nor anyone else on here.

    I'm aware that this is a one man crusade - the level of disinterest is astounding - but I'll carry it on for as long as they continue with their lying and stealing.

    So go back inside your shell, keep being a good little citizen, and carry on ignoring what's going on around you and be happy in your ignorance.
  • mart.vader
    mart.vader Posts: 714 Forumite
    If the question is; Should someone refuse to pay their water bill, if a Water Co. has attempted or committed fraud against them ? then, yes, I can perfectly see why not.

    Personally, the Water Co. who supply me with water, carried out a fraud against me, some years ago. I have told them that I will discuss the outstanding bill, when they are prepared to discuss the money they defrauded from me. They have been threatening to take me to court for three years, now.

    Last July, they told me that legal action would start within 5 days if I didn't pay. I have repeatedly asked them, what's the hold-up with the legal action, but they don't seem to have an answer.

    I have not paid, and told them to go ahead. This year their DCA is sending the same letter again (court action by 10th of July 2013). No sign of the court summons, so far. I'm not holding my breath, though !

    Maybe they're worried, as they should be, that if they make a claim for the £600 water bill, I will make a counter-claim for the £1,800 that they defrauded from me. I can't think of another reason - it's not because they don't want to put me through the stress of a court case.

    No doubt, someone will shortly say "Two Wrongs don't make a Right". That only applies to kids in the playground, not out here in the real world, where the Water Cos attitude is "I'll screw you, because I can !"
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