revert the pension age to 60/65

mumps

Pollycat wrote: »

Most of the jobs you mentioned (e.g. nurses, police, fire) are all jobs that always came with a non Monday to Friday working week.
They knew that when they went into the profession.

Not many kids when I was growing up had parents who ran their own business.
My Mum & Dad worked Monday to Friday, as did all the parents of my close friends.

Many students probably work Sundays as they now have tuition fees to think about (if they are lucky enough to ever get a job that pays enough to make it necessary for them to repay the fees) plus it's much more expensive for a student to live nowadays than 30 or 40 years ago.
Additionally, going to university was much less common then. People left school and got a job.

Maybe the older people you see working on a Sunday have no choice financially or (as someone mentioned up-thread) they know if they say 'no' they are looking for another job.



"No" what?

"No" it's not a good point that someone has pointed out the difference that the qualifying years has been reduced to - currently - 30 years?

Or "No" that the OP's post was an ill-informed and poorly worded rant?

I'm a couple of years short of the 35 years but I've made sufficient provision for my retirement that I can live with that.

I still don't feel that 'the Government has stolen money from me'.

People starting work now, and for quite a while, know about Sunday working. If they are choosing a career and don't want to work Sundays then choose a job that allows them that choice.

No, they got it wrong, women who are going to qualify for SRPat 65 aren't the ones benefitting from the 30 years NI contributions, they will have to pay 35 years to get the full pension. The other poster didn't mention 30 years currently and did refer to retiring at 65 and only needing 30 years which is wrong. You thought it was a good point and I pointed out the mistake.

mumps

Pollycat wrote: »

I had a great time when I was 17.
But then again I had a good job with equal pay, decent holiday allowance, Mon-Fri working etc etc.

I am pretty sure that if I were 17 again, I wouldn't have the same opportunity.

I just have the common sense to realise it rather than looking back with rose-tinted spectacles. :cool:

When I was 17 I was newly married, with little money, having great fun setting up my first home. I was still 17 when I found out I was having my first baby and started going to ante natal classes to get ready for the big event. I still didn't have much money but still enjoyed it all. I don't look back with rose tinted spectacles, it was a very happy time and I would love to do it all again. In fact 20 years later I did do most of it again but with more money and fancier nursery equipment. I still loved it.
I think now I would need an energy boost and a new set of ovaries to relive it.

molerat

Dunroamin wrote: »

What I particularly dislike about Sunday trading is the lies with which it was introduced that it would bring us "into line with Europe"! The ignorance of the GBP about life in any other countries was such that they actually fell for it.

Such as German shops not being allowed to open on Sunday and only one Saturday afternoon a month plus over 7.5t vehicles, with limited exceptions, not allowed on the road from midnight to 10pm Sundays and bank holidays.

Southend1

mumps wrote: »

People starting work now, and for quite a while, know about Sunday working. If they are choosing a career and don't want to work Sundays then choose a job that allows them that choice.

Most people starting their working life nowadays don't have the luxury of choice. They must take what is available. Once in work there is little union protection in most industries and they must work when they are told to. I think if you and some other posters on this thread understood this reality then your view would be different.

Southend1

mumps wrote: »

But why do you think it is OK for some people to do jobs that require Sunday or Christmas Day or whatever and not others? Can you say you would never go to a hospital on a Sunday, never be taken seriously ill at Christmas. If the power cables come down at the weekend do you expect them to get fixed. If you house catches fire on Christmas morning would you dial 999? If you are burlged on a Sunday do you say, "Oh no the poor policeman needs a day off I will call on Monday." and if those workers expect to be able to go shopping or to the cinema or swimming pool when they have a Sunday off occasionally why shouldn't they. If people don't want to work Sundays they need to look for a job where it isn't required.

I grew up with parents running their own business, Sunday was a busy day, my husband worked Sundays, two of my kids do jobs where they work Sundays. No big deal as far as I am concenred, I don't think me shopping on a Sunday is a problem, at my local supermarket there are lots of students working on a Sunday and also alot of the older staff seem to work Sundays. Maybe they don't see family on a Sunday and prefer to work.

Some people think Sunday trading is the end of life as we know it, I am more concerned that internet shopping is ruining the High St. We all have opinions.

There are some jobs that require Sunday working and they are essential roles. E.g. nurses/police officers. So unfortunately some people doing these jobs inevitably have to work on a Sunday. These kinds of professions often have schedules well planned in advance and adequate rest days, which is some consolation and allows them to plan their life around their essential work. Unlike jobs in the private sector e.g. retail where staff are at the beck and call of their employer 24/7 (heard of zero hours contracts?).

Do you seriously think that being able to buy socks seven days a week is as essential as being able to access accident and emergency facilities every day?

redbuzzard

Southend1 wrote: »

There are some jobs that require Sunday working and they are essential roles. E.g. nurses/police officers. So unfortunately some people doing these jobs inevitably have to work on a Sunday. These kinds of professions often have schedules well planned in advance and adequate rest days, which is some consolation and allows them to plan their life around their essential work. Unlike jobs in the private sector e.g. retail where staff are at the beck and call of their employer 24/7 (heard of zero hours contracts?).

Do you seriously think that being able to buy socks seven days a week is as essential as being able to access accident and emergency facilities every day?

It's a fairly tangential discussion that I feel bad for triggering, but that's about the size of it. My uncle Peter always worked nights, first on the railways, then as a fireman, then in a carpet factory. It was regular, predictable, and it suited him.

In the town I grew up in, the shops closed Tuesday afternoon as well as Sunday, some even closed Saturday afternoon. They closed each day at 5.30 or 6pm, and it was a proper full time job that people could become very good at and progress with. Now of course many retail multiples are staffed mainly by part timers/key timers for whom it isn't any sort of career and so it's no surprise that service and product knowledge are poor. Many are on contracted hours, and they just get told when to work - which can include separate stints in the same day.

I suggested to my children that if they couldn't find a good job, then they should at least try to find one that can be done Monday-Friday, mainly in daylight hours, in the warm and dry with no heavy lifting. Not too many of those around now for the unskilled (happily, they aren't).

I just don't think people's lives have been improved as much as the increase in material wealth would suggest, and I feel very fortunate despite the removal of my final salary pension a few years ago and of my job last year, at 59.

I am worried that my children will be expected to work until they are 70, unless they can get enough wool on their backs to retire earlier. I hope they can.

And the bizarre thing is that when I had to take my driving licence to the police station recently, I found it wasn't open to the public at all. I had to go to Hemel Hempstead, which I did, at 6.10pm, to find that it had closed at 6! Not only that, it doesn't open until 10 in the morning, and is closed all day on Sunday and Monday. The world'd gone mad I tell you!

mumps

Southend1 wrote: »

Most people starting their working life nowadays don't have the luxury of choice. They must take what is available. Once in work there is little union protection in most industries and they must work when they are told to. I think if you and some other posters on this thread understood this reality then your view would be different.

Really, my children have all chosen their careers, trained for them, worked hard for the qualifications. For the two that have chosen careers that will involve Sunday work that was part of their consideration.

I am a Personnel Manager so I think I do know something about working conditions. Interestinly I have been to my local supermarket this afternoon and was chatting to a woman who works there, her children were at school with mine. I asked her if she ever had to work Sundays as I had been reading this thread before I went out and it suddenly occurred to me that when I had been buying socks on Sundays I had never seen her working. She said she didn't do Sundays. I said I thought there would be a rota or something. Oh no she said, plenty of people are happy to work Sundays, students and people with no family local. They get paid a bit more, I didn't ask how much, so no shortage of volunteers.

mumps

Southend1 wrote: »

Do you seriously think that being able to buy socks seven days a week is as essential as being able to access accident and emergency facilities every day?

Funnily enough I don't actually buy socks that often. In fact I don't wear socks so I really can't remember the last time I did buy them. What about other jobs that traditionally involve Sunday working, say a barman at the local pub, is buying a pint an emergency? What about the local petrol station when you are running out of petrol? Ever bought a Sunday paper, was it an emergency? Do you watch TV at weekends? Go out for a meal?

Lots of things happen on Sundays and most of them don't involve socks or emergencies although I do accept that for some people socks are very, very important.

Southend1

mumps wrote: »

Really, my children have all chosen their careers, trained for them, worked hard for the qualifications. For the two that have chosen careers that will involve Sunday work that was part of their consideration.

I am a Personnel Manager so I think I do know something about working conditions. Interestinly I have been to my local supermarket this afternoon and was chatting to a woman who works there, her children were at school with mine. I asked her if she ever had to work Sundays as I had been reading this thread before I went out and it suddenly occurred to me that when I had been buying socks on Sundays I had never seen her working. She said she didn't do Sundays. I said I thought there would be a rota or something. Oh no she said, plenty of people are happy to work Sundays, students and people with no family local. They get paid a bit more, I didn't ask how much, so no shortage of volunteers.

Your children are very fortunate. However their experience isn't necessarily representative of the wider workforce.

I hope you are a good personnel manager and that you refuse to resort to the kind of low practice I have encountered during my career, e.g. Zero hours contracts, salaries that include a 25% "bonus" for opting out of the 48 hour working week and having no choice over days off, very low contracted hours with compulsory overtime clauses, inappropriate use of fixed term or temp contracts etc.

Yes there are many people who are happy to work Sundays. But for each young college student looking for a little pocket money there will also be several people for whom that job is their sole source of income and who would much rather be at home with the kids for one day a week than serving frappacappamoccachoccochinos to people who can't possibly live without Starbucks for one whole day.

Southend1

redbuzzard wrote: »

It's a fairly tangential discussion that I feel bad for triggering, but that's about the size of it. My uncle Peter always worked nights, first on the railways, then as a fireman, then in a carpet factory. It was regular, predictable, and it suited him.

In the town I grew up in, the shops closed Tuesday afternoon as well as Sunday, some even closed Saturday afternoon. They closed each day at 5.30 or 6pm, and it was a proper full time job that people could become very good at and progress with. Now of course many retail multiples are staffed mainly by part timers/key timers for whom it isn't any sort of career and so it's no surprise that service and product knowledge are poor. Many are on contracted hours, and they just get told when to work - which can include separate stints in the same day.

I suggested to my children that if they couldn't find a good job, then they should at least try to find one that can be done Monday-Friday, mainly in daylight hours, in the warm and dry with no heavy lifting. Not too many of those around now for the unskilled (happily, they aren't).

I just don't think people's lives have been improved as much as the increase in material wealth would suggest, and I feel very fortunate despite the removal of my final salary pension a few years ago and of my job last year, at 59.

I am worried that my children will be expected to work until they are 70, unless they can get enough wool on their backs to retire earlier. I hope they can.

And the bizarre thing is that when I had to take my driving licence to the police station recently, I found it wasn't open to the public at all. I had to go to Hemel Hempstead, which I did, at 6.10pm, to find that it had closed at 6! Not only that, it doesn't open until 10 in the morning, and is closed all day on Sunday and Monday. The world'd gone mad I tell you!

Good advice you gave to your children.

I agree that the increase in material wealth has not led to a corresponding improvement in living standards for the majority.

Hopefully future generations will realise that being able to buy a new lawnmower at 3 in the morning isn't necessarily a good thing. This idea that we must always shop shop shop 24/7 and buy more and more plastic tat to be happy would be laughable to our grandparents generation.