revert the pension age to 60/65

mumps

redbuzzard wrote: »

Fair point from Beanz. Winding back the clock is never an option.

Looking down the other end of the telescope, with shopping going online, do we really need to have the shops open every day? We could rest at home and wait for the shopping to come to us...just being mischievous, don't bother to flame that comment!

I am ambivalent about the internet, but it just works so well for many things and I don't like shops any more now that personal, knowledgeable service has been designed out.

I have just received the Ocado delivery, which I much prefer to driving 20 minutes each way, trawling the shop to see where they hid the Marmite this week, then finding that the special offer I put on the list is sold out, failing the self service till test yet again, and that my car has been dinked.

I also love Amazon and ebay. I broke the glass on my phone last week. At the weekend I ordered a new screen, which arrived on Tuesday while I was out and I fitted it yesterday. I wouldn't even know where to go to buy one in person.

But it does dehumanise jobs. Working in a shop and interacting with customers must be better night shifts in a chilly warehouse, and people spend far too much time already in their own little boxes watching TV and ignoring the world (to which can be added internet forumming...).

À chacun, son goût, as they say in Surrey.

I do some internet shopping, not living in a city it is sometimes the only option but I do like to support local shops. I think it is sad to see so many closing down but the internet is hard for them to compete with. The thing I really hate with internet shopping is that I always seem to be out when the courier arrives, not supermarket shopping as I know when they are coming. It is miles from us to go and pick up the parcel and so the whole sorry sage starts again the next day.

Pollycat

mumps wrote: »

I don't see the relevance of how long bars have been open on Sundays, if people think Sunday should be a family/leisure day why shouldn't all staff have that?

We were discussing jobs (or at least I thought we were) that have traditionally been Sunday jobs - that's where the relevance (at least to me) comes in.

mumps wrote: »

Do you remember the Sunday licensing laws? They were a bit more restrictive than now, do you keep to the old times?

Of course I remember the old Sunday licencing laws.
I don't agree that they were 'a bit more restrictive than now'.
Imho, they were a lot more restrictive than now.

And yes, I'm usually our of the pub by 3pm on Sundays if I go out.

seven-day-weekend

mumps wrote: »

Sorry, I knew meat was involved. I know what he means about the day off in the week, much better for lots of activities. I do occasionally buy a Morrisons chicken but probably not his branch.

Bit off topic but is the flat purchase going ahead or are you still making up your mind?

Decided against doing a b-t-l at all. Although attractive in many ways, we've decided it is too much hassle. Thanks for asking.

jamesd

N1AK wrote: »

Nobody benefits from Sunday trading rules except the shops that are exempt from them. Everyone else is either unaffected or inconvenienced.

Those of one particular religious belief may like them. Those of at least two other major religious beliefs aren't catered for at all by them. Those of other or no religious belief are inconvenienced by them.

Eliminating those laws was a nice bit of religion-based discrimination removal as well as of practical benefit. Hopefully employers now mostly have effective working hours systems that can cater to a broader range of desires or needs than just one religion.

p00hsticks

redbuzzard wrote: »

I seem to have started an argument with my nostalgia attack.

It's not an argument, just a point of view. I simply lament that modern life should be better for the mass of people than it is, given the tremendous increase in productivity of the last 40 years.

We should have been able to translate that into more leisure and time to live, learn and socialise, not work, shop and eat 7 days a week.

Of course, the culprit is the market economy, which is extremely good at improving efficiency and generating wealth, but very bad at sharing it out. Left unshackled, it will always keep the mass of workers poor and enrich the owners of capital.

Unfortunately, like democracy, it seems to be the worst system there is, except for all the others that have been tried.

I can't now locate a source but I recall watching a programme on this subject once saying that it was originally thought that the changes in automation brought in in the last century which increased productivity would mean shorter working weeks and more leisure time for the workers. But, given the choice, the workers generally preferred to continue to work longer hours for more money rather than have more free time.

So many people work longer hours in order to be able to afford luxuries like holidays abroad, iphones and Ipads, two or three cars per household etc....

atush

I am all for sunday trading the more the better. Would mean jobs young people like mine could take up in the summer holidays as they would need more staff.

They sent out over 40 CVs each, and no work to be found. In an area with LOW unemployment.

p00hsticks

atush wrote: »

I am all for sunday trading the more the better. Would mean jobs young people like mine could take up in the summer holidays as they would need more staff.

They sent out over 40 CVs each, and no work to be found. In an area with LOW unemployment.

Actually I suspect that Sunday trading hasn't had that effect.

When I was young (talking 1960's- 70s) shops generally opened 9-5 six days a week Monday- Saturday with a half day closing at 1pm on one day in the week (the day was standard across a particular town, but varied from place to place).

Supermarkets had late night opening on Fridays till 8pm.

As a result, from when I was 14, I (and many of my classmates) had part time supermarket jobs working 5pm - 8pm Friday nights and all day Saturday throughout the year - and in addition we would pick up occasional full weeks during the school holidays to cover staff holidays. With the exception of the manager and a few full time supervisors, late night Fridays and Saturdays were staffed almost entirely by schoolkids, with the full time shop staff basically doing a 8.30 -5 Monday - Friday hours shift.

The advent of extended opening hours / Sunday trading / 24 hour shopping, plus the introduction of tax credit / benefit rules that allow people benefits if they work just a certain amount of hours mean that full time supermarket staff are now generally expected to work varying shifts and there are more adults looking for shorter hours and topping up their salaries with tax credits.

So although there are more staff in total required to meet the extended hours, the work is being picked up by adult full time workers working shifts - there is no longer the opportunity for the sort of casual/temporary short hours that used to be filled by students.

redbuzzard

Multiples use a LOT of key timers because the shop is empty most of the time, certainly weekday mornings. A biggish PC World store for example could easily have 50 staff, most of them part time. Some of the full timers will come in around midday during the week, and part timers will come in numbers to supplement them for evenings and weekends.

When I was 16-18, still at school in 1969-71, I used to do Wednesday, Thursday and Friday evenings (4.30-6.00) plus all day Saturday at Fine Fare supermarket. 30/- a week, 3/6 of which went on fish, chips, tea bread and butter in the sit-down chippy on Saturday lunchtime (that's £1.50 and £0.175 for the youngsters - think about the inflation that implies when you take a level annuity )

redbuzzard

p00hsticks wrote: »

I can't now locate a source but I recall watching a programme on this subject once saying that it was originally thought that the changes in automation brought in in the last century which increased productivity would mean shorter working weeks and more leisure time for the workers. But, given the choice, the workers generally preferred to continue to work longer hours for more money rather than have more free time.

So many people work longer hours in order to be able to afford luxuries like holidays abroad, iphones and Ipads, two or three cars per household etc....

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

A mill owner who employed 100 people, and installed machinery that only required 50 people to mind them to produce the same output, wouldn't maintain their wages and cut their hours by 50% would he? Nor would he double the output and increase their wages. Nor could he, because his competitors would undercut him.

Competition means that the benefit ("surplus" in the jargon) will always go to the capitalist, other things being equal. Only factors like unions, competition for labour or skills (hence the obsession with unsustainable growth) and minimum wage legislation temper it. Karl Marx worked that out. That's why we still have quite a lot of people in work doing long hours and still poor.

GwylimT

Of course we should revert the pension age back to the original age of 70, no one has forced you to take out a pension, you yourself have just chosen to invest instead of taking your money else where. There are lots of private pensions you could invest in like an elderly neighbour only for the company to go bust 4 years before her retirement.