PayPal illegally taken money

archinotts

Hi

My partner is having a real issue with PayPal because of their incompetence and I want to know what I can do to help her.

She sold a woman's leather jacket second hand on an Ebay auction for £83 +£20 postage to a guy in France (we live in the UK).

A week after the guy received it he said it didn't fit and wanted to return it because it wasn't the size as described in the auction. It was accurately described however my partner still offered a refund minus the postage costs as it cost so much to send to France. The guy refused and raised a claim with Paypal.

Paypal froze £103 in her account which was more than she was even owed given Ebay and Paypal fees. They basically took the extra money from her existing balance.

His evidence to Paypal was "It is the wrong size, not as described". We provided photos of the jacket to paypal to prove it was. He did no such thing. Paypal sided with him.

I spoke to Paypal on the phone on her behalf and said there had clearly been a mistake as they should have sided with my partner. The man I spoke to looked at the provided information and instantly 100% agreed that a mistake had been made. He gave her £25 compensation and refunded the Paypal fees for the transaction. He said he would talk to his supervisor to get the decision overturned and she would get a full refund. We were told to expect to hear from them again in 24-72 hours.

We did not.

After 6 days of waiting my partner phoned them again. The woman she spoke to said they had sided with the other guy again because he had already posted the jacket back on PayPal's instruction so they had to stick to the original decision. They said he had posted the jacket a week ago using 24hour delivery and we should have it by now.

We did not. There had been no attempt at delivery or any sign of delivery. Paypal checked the tracking number and it said the status was "held". No further explanation.

They said as we hadn't received it they would ask the buyer to provide proof of postage. If he did there was nothing else they would do and they will give the guy the refund and my girlfriend gets nothing. They said is was her responsibility that the jacket had not arrived.

We just got an email saying he has done so and that PayPal have now refunded him. They then charged her for the fees they refunded her earlier.

My partner is now out of pocket to the sum of £103 through PayPal's ineptitude.

PayPal had already admitted she shouldn't have had to refund the buyer in the first place, they gave her £25 compensation as evidence of that. They now say it's her responsibility to ensure the jacket is returned to her which it is NOT. The postage contract is between the seller and the delivery company NOT the recipient.

What can we do now to get all her money back?

I'm tempted to take them to small claims court for the £103 and my time costs (as an architect that's £80/hour). Is this the right action?

patman99

If your partner funds her Paypal account via a credit card or VISA debit card, then she can speak to the issuer and do a charge back to reclaim one lot of £103. As for the first lot, speak to the guy who purchased the item & ask for a tracking number. He will have had to have sent the item tracked in order to adhere to Paypal's returns policy.

Once you have the tracking number, you can run it through the parcel co.'s website to see where it is. It might well be in their depot awaiting your collection due to no-one being in when they tried to deliver it.

If the tracking number proves to be false, or the item turns-out not to be the coat you sent, then visit your nearest Police station to report thae matter as it is classed as 'Obtaining goods by deception'.

Obviously_the_best

Yes, taking them to court is entirely the right action. £013 is one hell of a lot of money for them to steal from you.

sharpy2010

archinotts wrote: »

I'm tempted to take them to small claims court for the £103 and my time costs (as an architect that's £80/hour). Is this the right action?

You can take them to court if you wish, thats your prerogative, attempting to charge them £80 an hour for your time is bording on ludicrous - even though I don't doubt you charge this for architecture work, you cannot charge it for your time when you are suing them. You could charge perhaps £10 to £15 as a more realistic figure.

RFW

Call Paypal again and ask to speak to a supervisor/manager.
If that fails write to them at their registered office, using tracked post and giving them x days to refund your money or you will take court action.

@Patman99 There can't be a credit card chargeback as there was never an item purchased by OP's partner. Section 75 makes the credit card company liable for protecting a consumer, in this instance the OP's partner wasn't a consumer, she was a supplier.
Given that the purchaser was in France, the police would likely be a waste of time too.

I'd continue to pursue Paypal and maybe contact the FSA who, unless it has recently changed, have a department dedicated to Paypal.

George_Michael

RFW wrote: »

@Patman99 There can't be a credit card chargeback as there was never an item purchased by OP's partner. Section 75 makes the credit card company liable for protecting a consumer, in this instance the OP's partner wasn't a consumer, she was a supplier.

RFW,
You are making the common mistake of confusing a chargeback and a S75 claim. They are totally different things and there is no reason why the OP's partner can't attempt a chargeback for an unauthorised payment from their credit card if they have proof of Paypal stating that a mistake had been made regarding the original decision in the dispute.

RFW

George_Michael wrote: »

RFW,
You are making the common mistake of confusing a chargeback and a S75 claim. They are totally different things and there is no reason why the OP's partner can't attempt a chargeback for an unauthorised payment from their credit card if they have proof of Paypal stating that a mistake had been made regarding the original decision in the dispute.

Point taken, I'd still think a chargeback in these circumstances, even if the credit card company had funded the account, would be very difficult indeed.

archinotts

Hi

In regards to the chargeback, this wouldn't be possible as the money wasn't taken from the bank, it was taken from profits from other sales on Ebay which had gone through onto the PayPal balance.

I will be calling PayPal today very soon to demand they put the money back in the account given no item has been returned and they are now charging for the fees they already refunded.

Thanks for everyone's advice and support so far!

patman99

Can you find-out from the buyer who they used as the shipper ?. The item might well have been 'lost' in the shipper's system.

archinotts

It was supposedly royal mail via 24 hour delivery.

custardy

archinotts wrote: »

It was supposedly royal mail via 24 hour delivery.

Well RM dont do 24 hour deliveries from France
So you need to clarify this
You have a tracking number so what is it?
With a status of held Im assuming you tracked it on the Parcelforce site?