Used car faulty but garage refusing responsibilty

Tilt

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Yes he did.

The advert (which said 50000 miles) is part of "what the dealer told him", which is why wrong information in it can be used as evidence in a claim. The dealer said 50k, the clock was saying 29k, so the dealer told him that the clock mileage was wrong.

Love to see that tested in court! I think you will find that the law sides with the 'non-professional' on these matters. I think you would also find that SOGA states that any information provided when describing an item, should be perfectly clear and accurate (or words to that affect).

I think if we are to believe that the OP would of automatically be expected to know that the mileage was wrong because the mileometer was showing less that what was being advertised, I think we would have to assume that the OP would be an expert in the motor trade. I'm not sure a judge would see it that way however.

KyKyM

Joe_Horner wrote: »

He hasn't said that the instrument cluster has been changed but, given that the dealer advised him that the displayed mileage was wrong:



a legitimate instrument replacement is the most likely explanation.

Incidentally, he's probably made a mistake with the sums to get the 65931 suspected miles. That assumes that after the 2009 MOT the clock was replaced with a new one showing zero (37667 + 28264 = 65931).

It's far more likely that the panel was replaced with a used one from a low mileage scrapper. Trying to prove either way could be very difficult indeed, but won't be needed anyway if VOSA agree that the MOT wasn't done properly.

We were not advised of the mileage being wrong and are just assuming the panel has been changed rather then assuming it has been turned back.

I should have said a minimun of 65931, if the instrument panel was changed straight after the MOT, which is unlikely, and like you said, it is almost impossible to work out the true mileage/

Tilt wrote: »

But according to the OP, the dealer DID NOT make him aware that the mileage was wrong. (post #23)

We were not made aware of the different mileage.

harveybobbles wrote: »

Where is the 2010 MOT? Also why has it only done 500 miles between 06/2012 and 06/2013? Did th selling dealer have it in stock a while?

How old is the Espace btw?

There is no MOT listed for 2010. The dealer appears to have had it in stock for a few months.

It is a 2004.

spacey2012

First line is to find out what type of trading entity they are .
If they are a Limited Company, they can just reform for £120 within the hour.

KyKyM

spacey2012 wrote: »

First line is to find out what type of trading entity they are .
If they are a Limited Company, they can just reform for £120 within the hour.

I believe they are a sole trader. How would I find out?

Tilt

Can I ask what it is you want to achieve from this?

If you want my opinion, I think you should seriously consider taking further advice on the mileage issue. I believe this to be significant and a probable case of miss-selling or falsely describing the vehicle.

While selling a vehicle with the incorrect mileage is not a breach of the SOGA itself, a potential buyer should be made aware that the mileage is at least possibly inaccurate. The seller should put a disclaimer on the speedo saying as such or where the speedo has been changed, this should be clearly disclosed in any advertising plus the seller should make sure that the customer is fully aware BEFORE the purchase as the issue could affect the vehicle's actual value.

Rules about description clearly state that anything which may affect the potential buyer's decision to purchase a car, must be disclosed. A vehicle's mileage is clearly one of those factors that a buyer considers when making his/her decision to make the purchase and in your case, the seller failed in his obligation to make you aware that there was a mileage discrepancy although he advertised it as having done 50k when the mileometer shows it to have done 29k.

I am not convinced that 'physical' information by itself is sufficient to satisfy the SOGA without the seller actually pointing it out to you and possibly even recording the fact on the sales invoice.

You need to now consider your future position when you come to sell the car on in relation to what affect the issue will have on it's depreciation further down the line.

Maybe this link will help you but I would deffo take professional advice.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/your_world/consumer_affairs/cars_buying_a_secondhand_car_e.htm#you_bought_the_vehicle_from_a_dealer

spacey2012

Check any paper work or receipts you have for trading names, if they are a LTD company it has to be displayed on the receipt or they trade as a sole trader.
A sole trader is responsible personally for any loss they have caused you.
They are not limited by law to a set liability and can only absolve responsibilities by personal bankruptcy .
A LTD company can and often do just vanish in to thin air and re-open with the same stock, pitch and people just under a new LTD name.
Finding out is key to bringing any form of dispute to court.
A sole trader, you have a chance, a LTD company will just ignore any CCJ or fold.

colino

spacey, were you hurt by a rogue trader? The belief that sole trader is better than incorporated just isn't valid. Sure a lot of fly by nights cut and run on a regular basis, but to be recognised and get finance, most funders want you as a fully paid up limited, incorporated entity and its in your interest, while it may be a legal body in its own right, to keep that business afloat. Funders don't like to be burned twice and directorships are the easiest thing in the world to trace. Sole Trader car businesses are generally either start-ups or driveway dealers who will have their assets (house, bank funds, etc., etc.) in someone elses name and be legally, men of straw.

KyKyM

Tilt wrote: »

Can I ask what it is you want to achieve from this?

If you want my opinion, I think you should seriously consider taking further advice on the mileage issue. I believe this to be significant and a probable case of miss-selling or falsely describing the vehicle.

While selling a vehicle with the incorrect mileage is not a breach of the SOGA itself, a potential buyer should be made aware that the mileage is at least possibly inaccurate. The seller should put a disclaimer on the speedo saying as such or where the speedo has been changed, this should be clearly disclosed in any advertising plus the seller should make sure that the customer is fully aware BEFORE the purchase as the issue could affect the vehicle's actual value.

Rules about description clearly state that anything which may affect the potential buyer's decision to purchase a car, must be disclosed. A vehicle's mileage is clearly one of those factors that a buyer considers when making his/her decision to make the purchase and in your case, the seller failed in his obligation to make you aware that there was a mileage discrepancy although he advertised it as having done 50k when the mileometer shows it to have done 29k.

I am not convinced that 'physical' information by itself is sufficient to satisfy the SOGA without the seller actually pointing it out to you and possibly even recording the fact on the sales invoice.

You need to now consider your future position when you come to sell the car on in relation to what affect the issue will have on it's depreciation further down the line.

Maybe this link will help you but I would deffo take professional advice.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/your_world/consumer_affairs/cars_buying_a_secondhand_car_e.htm#you_bought_the_vehicle_from_a_dealer

Thanks.

I really got my answer a while back, I wanted to know if the garage could claim the brakes could actually wear in the short time I had the vehicle but so much else has come up in the thread. My plan is to wait for my appointment with VOSA on Monday and then hopefully use this to get the garage to let me reject the car. I have spoken to CA on behalf of Trading Standards and they are waiting to see what happens.

Joe_Horner

Been away for a couple of weeks, any update from VOSA looking at the car?