Would you pass someone a glass of water

shirlgirl2004

I would but I've seen nurses leave people until they are delirious due to a lack of water. I've also seen them starve people including those fed via peg because the nurses don't understand the directions from the dietician. I could understand it but the nurses couldn't. To be fair treatment is Spain is no better. ICU was dirty in Spain at least the ward was clean here. Mind you I'd rather some dust and that the patient was fed and watered (which wasn't done in Spain either).

smartn

Amazing all this criticism directed at Nurses and the management seem to get away scot free! The nursing standards in NHS hospital today are a result of bureaucracy and poor management. The workload has increased dramatically and ward sisters etc no longer have time to do any nursing as they are too busy filling in paperwork. Fewer staff actually doing nursing work on the wards results in poorer quality of care, it's not rocket science but get a manager to accept this and sack one of his/her mates so they can have two extra nurses?

I accept that when thousands of nurses go about there everyday work you are going to get examples of poor care, but don't let the management get away with it, much of it is a result of lack of spending on the front line.

lostinrates

grizzly1911 wrote: »

My MIL was in hospital last year on an Emergency Assessment Unit for 2-3 days.

Woman opposite was yoing and very demanding, had been in some form of domestic. Complained her hair hadn't been washed, this wasn't right, that wasn't right, I know my rights etc.

A very old lady was admitted in next bed from anursing home. Regular vistor according to her daughter. Not making any sense demanding to go to toilet (daughter said it was attention seaking) nurses offered her a bowl/tray to use in bed (with help) as they couldn't keep moving her. Daughter was happy for this compromise but doing stop the "complaining" from patient.

Both patients took up a considerable amount of time and distracted nurses away from more important cases.

How does one who is not the consultant and the sister or the nurses know which cases are more 'important' let alone most urgent?

System

No.
As the "Provider of a potable substance" you would be responsible for having carried out the appropriate quality checks, be in possession of a current certificate of minimum quality, and have received appropriate health and safety training in transporting food-quality liquids.
Obviously too you would have public liability insurance.

Moby

Generali wrote: »

...not because it's your job but just because they asked?

NHS nurses don't.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10138140/Rotten-NHS-culture-led-to-cover-ups.html

And NHS bureaucrats allow them to starve their patients to death and cover it up.

#envyoftheworld

You see....... if you force down the salaries and the terms and conditions of those at the bottom of the pile....you deprofessionalise the 'caring' professions and you tend to end up employing people who are not up to the job because they don't have the right attitude/value system. The irony is that those who are now complaining about the NHS and a deterioration in standards are the very same individuals who have been at the forefront of undermining it.

My wife has recently been in hospital and while visiting her we both listened to the nurses on the ward standing around talking about their 'other' jobs selling things on ebay etc. These nurses were on short term contracts, they came from abroad on short placements and had a limited stake in the ethics and values of running a caring service. They were not going to be around long enough for this culture to develop. These people were not being 'evil' or deliberately callous....they were operating in the prevailing values of the society that employed them. We are now short term, we do not value public service, money and acquiring it is the only thing of value, the power of the markets rules etc etc. That 'culture' can have an extremely corrosive effect and directly leads to the terrible things that we see and the resulting cover ups. These things do not happen in isolation!

davenport151

Conrad wrote: »

An example of NHS H&S culture diverting staff away from core needs;

Woman in my office MIL has dementia.

In hospital bed next to her an elderly woman weighing about 6 stone needed to go to toilet.

Out came a massive crane and then followed a 20 minute awkward procedure trying to get her into it and to the loo.

That's 20 minutes on one patient needing the loo on a busy ward with many calls on nursing time.

Is society so delicate that we cannot risk a couple of nurses go either side of the patient holding her under her armpits, like we used to in 'the bad' old days?

There are a lot of practices from 'the bad old days' that we do not do anymore. These are to stop injury to the patient and protect the people doing their job.

Spirit_2

Moby wrote: »

You see....... if you force down the salaries and the terms and conditions of those at the bottom of the pile....you deprofessionalise the 'caring' professions and you tend to end up employing people who are not up to the job because they don't have the right attitude/value system. The irony is that those who are now complaining about the NHS and a deterioration in standards are the very same individuals who have been at the forefront of undermining it.

These nurses were on short term contracts, they came from abroad on short placements and had a limited stake in the ethics and values of running a caring service. !

What evidence have you got for saying pay is forced down?

I am not making any judgement on whether it is too high or too low...but the 2013 pay rates are:

A newly qualified nurse gets basic pay of £21400 plus a further 20% (min £4000) if in London, it rises each year (excluding pay awards) up to £27900 +London Allowance. Working nights or Saturdays is enhanced by 30% and Sundays & BH by 60%.

Many Nurses will be eligible/qualified for a promotion within 3 years and the next pay band earns up to £34500 (+London + unsocial). The next level such as a ward sister earns up to £40500 (London + unsocial). Matrons earn up to £47,000 (+London + unsocial)
It is a 37.5 hour week with 35 days min holiday (incl bh) rising to 41 days after 10 years.

The NHS careers website tells that the NHS Pension is one of the most generous in the UK , it is final salary and the employer contributes 14%. You get full basic pay if you are of sick which grows with length of service up to 6 months before reducing to half pay. .


The reason newly arrived overseas nurses (as you describe) may be on fixed term contracts is most likely to be because they have Visa's and would not have indefinite leave to remain. That is immigration controls not employer choice. If you have gone to the trouble of recruiting overseas I would be surprised that you would shoot yourself in the foot by offering short term contracts unless you absolutely had to. EU nurses are not subject to Visa's nor should they discriminated against with ftc.

I do not believe overall that 'culture' is linked to pay. I regularly recieve some great customer service in restaurants and shops..not famed for high pay or generous terms and conditions in those services. It is more linked to Values, Leadership and Training/Education. The move to University rather than vocational training perhaps lost some of the 'care' attributes that were previously valued. Post mid staffs I hope we will see a sea change in the importance of care being recognised.

makeyourdaddyproud

With fewer nurses, people living for longer with ailments, compensation culture and a government obsessed with bureaucracy, what is there to be surprised about?

I can add to that mix if you like...

So-called "caring" parents who absolutely refuse to look after their parents/grans - perfectly happy to visit them in hospital and moan about their treatment but are not so happy to look after them at home.

Most who complain are in denial.

michaels

Spirit wrote: »

What evidence have you got for saying pay is forced down?

I am not making any judgement on whether it is too high or too low...but the 2013 pay rates are:

A newly qualified nurse gets basic pay of £21400 plus a further 20% (min £4000) if in London, it rises each year (excluding pay awards) up to £27900 +London Allowance. Working nights or Saturdays is enhanced by 30% and Sundays & BH by 60%.

Many Nurses will be eligible/qualified for a promotion within 3 years and the next pay band earns up to £34500 (+London + unsocial). The next level such as a ward sister earns up to £40500 (London + unsocial). Matrons earn up to £47,000 (+London + unsocial)
It is a 37.5 hour week with 35 days min holiday (incl bh) rising to 41 days after 10 years.

The NHS careers website tells that the NHS Pension is one of the most generous in the UK , it is final salary and the employer contributes 14%. You get full basic pay if you are of sick which grows with length of service up to 6 months before reducing to half pay. .


The reason newly arrived overseas nurses (as you describe) may be on fixed term contracts is most likely to be because they have Visa's and would not have indefinite leave to remain. That is immigration controls not employer choice. If you have gone to the trouble of recruiting overseas I would be surprised that you would shoot yourself in the foot by offering short term contracts unless you absolutely had to. EU nurses are not subject to Visa's nor should they discriminated against with ftc.

I do not believe overall that 'culture' is linked to pay. I regularly recieve some great customer service in restaurants and shops..not famed for high pay or generous terms and conditions in those services. It is more linked to Values, Leadership and Training/Education. The move to University rather than vocational training perhaps lost some of the 'care' attributes that were previously valued. Post mid staffs I hope we will see a sea change in the importance of care being recognised.

Thanks for a useful post complete with facts

Generali

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

But still posting hyperbole about the NHS

#obsessed

Yes, because when you move countries you automatically sever all links with your previous home.

I still read French news websites having left there in the early 90s. Does that make me obsessed too?