Schools no longer allowed to authorise holidays

Naf

Our oldest just had two weeks off to visit family in Holland. As far as we're concerned its part of his cultural education as my wife and all that side of the family are Dutch. We informed the school, didn't ask permission, and have no idea if they actually 'authorised' it or not.
I wouldn't take an actual holiday during term time - but its my decision, not the school or state's.

Mojisola

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

When my husband was teaching, his attitude to term time holidays (not that he had any part in the decision-making process), was 'fine, you have your holiday whenever you like, but it is YOUR responsibility to make sure your child catches up with the work on their return as I am not prepared to take time out of lessons to do it as the other 39 kids in the class will suffer, nor am I prepared to give up my lunch break to do so'.

Almo wrote: »

When I first started out I used to get really wound up by students skipping off on holiday but in the end I just took a hard line approach and would tell them all that it was their responsibility to catch up and that there would be no extra help whatsoever. With a big class, hardly a week went by without someone being off for something and it would have been impossible to keep giving extra help/lessons on a week in, week out basis.

Parents who don't think it causes any problems because their little dears always catch up and are doing wonderfully well despite always having term-time holidays aren't seeing the whole picture.

Even if teachers take the stance of not giving catch-up lessons, continually having children off does disrupt the whole class.

FBaby

Mojisola wrote: »

Parents who don't think it causes any problems because their little dears always catch up and are doing wonderfully well despite always having term-time holidays aren't seeing the whole picture.

And why assume that sometimes, it is indeed the case that the kids are able to catch up (of course depending on year/length of holiday etc...). I took my kids off on the last day of school before the last break. As it happened, my DD (year 8) missed a new important maths lesson, so when she came back and they were given exercises, she initially didn't know what it was about, but she read the lesson in 15 minutes and still managed to finish all the exercise correctly before anyone else.

Some children are really able to catch up. What my DD gained from our holiday was worth every minute of it and so much more than what she missed.

It isn't right that it should be a blanket fine. It was absolutely right that each case should be considered on its own merit.

sweetcheekz

I have to admit to having many weeks off school during term time, they were all authorised though, mainly because they were organised by the school themselves. A week in France, a school camp in the New Forest, a French/German exchange week, the school Ski Trip, as well numerous day trips to Zoo's, Sea life centres, theme parks etc. Were they any more educational than a week in Magaluf with my family would have been?.. probably not.

I have to say I resent the amount of intrusion that the "authorities" are increasingly having in the choices I have about my life and that of my family. Perhaps they could invest all that time and effort (and probably money, it always costs money) into making a difference to the lives of those children/families who genuinely need help, the ones living in squalor or with abuse issues, and leave the Parents of the ones that are just having the odd few days fun to use their own common sense. After all I imagine there are very few parents who are deliberately setting out to wreck their children's education, and who, on reflection, decide 5 days quality time with their own parents probably won't hurt them.

duchy

You make some good points - When talking about helping kids to catch up I was thinking more of primary school. I don't think any parent should be taking kids out after year 8 (eg when they are into the GCSE/AS/Alevel course). Prior to that most parents with half a brain can manage pretty nicely with a bit of effort (I used to support students up to year 9 - even in subjects I was hopeless at in school I could hold my own ).

I have no issue with parents taking kids out at non vital times once a year (eg a week added to half term ...or the last week of term when nowdays nothing seems to get done) however- SATs time, first week of term -especially in September etc I don't feel is acceptable. Ultimately though parents who would even consider taking kids out at the vital times probably have little concern for their kids education anyway - and the damage is done year round and not just by taking them on holiday. I can remember coming back from holiday - and giving the class a talk on Pompei as we had visited it and another child giving a talk on airports and aviation-of course now days unless either fell into the far more rigid sylabus teachers now follow -it could be a problem.

securityguy wrote: »

I'd argue that in the later years of secondary school, taking children out of school for two weeks is a pretty good definition of not giving a flying fig. No one is going to die from not having a holiday abroad for a few years.

The removal of modular GCSEs and A Levels will make matters slightly easier, perhaps, but up until this year many children were sitting a significant exam every eight to ten weeks throughout Y10 to Y13.

You can say that the exam load currently imposed on children is absurd, and I'd agree: brother, sing that hymn. However, given that that was the system, disadvantaging your children because you prefer Tenerife to Torbay, or because you "have" to attend a cousin's wedding, seems rather selfish.

The "parents helping in catching up" argument is, with respect, rather weak. The parents who are in a position to make a serious attempt at teaching two weeks' material over a full spectrum of GCSE courses (or, indeed, A Levels) are largely the parents who aren't taking their kids out in the first place.

We can only speak from our own experience, but my observation is that parents who take their children out repeatedly are very quick to blame everyone but themselves when their children don't end up with the results they want/need.

FBaby

I totally agree, but from my experience, most kids taken out of school is during non crucial time. I don't know anyone who has taken their kids longer than a week (either for a 1 week holiday or for 2, but attached to school holidays). Yet, these parents will be fined in the same way than those who are clearly unreasonable and indeed potentially compromising their kids education. That's what I really don't like about it, that puts everyone in the same basket when circumstances can be significantly different and non comparable.

Mojisola

FBaby wrote: »

And why assume that sometimes, it is indeed the case that the kids are able to catch up (of course depending on year/length of holiday etc...). I took my kids off on the last day of school before the last break. As it happened, my DD (year 8) missed a new important maths lesson, so when she came back and they were given exercises, she initially didn't know what it was about, but she read the lesson in 15 minutes and still managed to finish all the exercise correctly before anyone else.

Some children are really able to catch up. What my DD gained from our holiday was worth every minute of it and so much more than what she missed.

But not all children are as quick to learn as your daughter. Have you considered the impact on your daughter because other children were taken away on holiday and then struggled in class which meant that the progress of the whole class was affected?

Maybe only the bright children with conscientious parents should be allowed term time holidays?

Lunar_Eclipse

FBaby wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I am assuming that this doesn't apply to academies?

Interesting question. Maybe that's why I don't know of fines being given, since we're at an Academy.

pigpen

The problem is, if they start saying this family are ok to take their children for this reason but this family can't even though their circumstances are similar is very much open to abuse.. popularity with the staff for example.. if it is the same rule for everyone then everyone knows where they stand and can make an informed choice and everyone is then treated equally and fairly.. I actually like the idea it is a blanket fine for everyone.. I think it is out of order it is given to both parents when they are separated and one might not know anything about it!!!!

I rang the police last year when the childrens dad didn't return the girls on the Sunday evening .. they had gone away Friday to Sunday.. he didn't return the girls and wasn't answering the phone to me and I had no idea where they were and he made them miss school on the Monday which I was furious about.. I would have made him pay any fine I had incurred because he had lied to me and also knew I would not have allowed them to go and miss school. One of them missed a trip I had paid £5 for.. so she missed out on learning experience related to classwork and I didn't get the money back..

If both parents go on the holiday then they should both be fined, if one goes that one gets the fine.. that seems more fair!

Tiddlywinks

Isn't this also about teaching our kids to respect the "rules of the game"?

Taking them out of school for a non-essential reason is giving them the message that their education comes second... Plus, this has a longer term message - that it is OK for them to ignore the rules.

Very poor parenting...