Survey showed issues, are we being unreasonable? Questions!

NervousHomeowner

My partner and I are FTB in the process of buying a flat. 3 weeks ago we had a homebuyers done which showed a problem with the electrics so we got an NICEIC electrician to come out and do an electrical report. The report showed that the property would not get a satisfactory EICR certificate & needed £1500 worth of work (Itemised in a proper quote) to get the certificate.

The report also advised that the heating system needed redoing as the heaters were just plugged into wall sockets, not actually wired into the electrics and that there were other things around the property that needed doing, but that these didn't need to be done to get the EICR certificate.

With the above in mind, we put two suggestions forward to the vendor (through their EA):

1. We would pay for the rest of the electrical work & all the redecorating costs afterwards, if they would pay for the work needed for the property to get a satisfactory EICR certificate. This would need to be done before exchange & they would then need to provide us with a satisfactory EICR certificate.

2. We would pay for the rest of the electrical work & the redecorating costs afterwards, if they would take the cost of the work off the cost of the house, and allow us to get the work done between exchange & completion. This was something the vendor's EA suggested to us because the vendor doesn't live locally & it would be quite difficult for them to arrange & supervise the work.

We thought both suggestions were reasonable as we only asked the vendor to pay for the work that really needed doing. However, the vendor is now not at all happy! Apparently the quote we provided isn't 'itemised enough' (But no explanation as to what they mean by that?) and they insist that some of the work is the management company's responsibility (but they haven't actually told us what that work is). They've now said that we have to get our solicitor to go through their solicitor to settle the matter.

I feel like they're being unreasonable, as we have tried to be fair but realistically we can't afford to pay the price we have agreed for the property (Only £2000 less than the AP) and all of the electrical work that is now needed. Plus, we don't own the property yet so surely it shouldn't matter to us what is or isn't the vendor's responsibility? Presumably it is just up to them to get it sorted? Or should we actually go to the management company? Are we actually being unreasonable? What do we even do from here? Should we start looking at other properties..?

BitterAndTwisted

The vendor would have to be out of their effing minds to agree to Number 2!

Just dock the cost of the essential work from your offer and pay for the rest yourselves once you've moved in. Looking for anything else makes you look totally unreasonable

chickaroonee

What did the survey value the property at?
If it is at your offer I wouldn't lower my price if I was the seller.

I can't comment on whether the electrical work that needs doing is urgent or not, but I would say that you do not need that certificate for a purchase and indeed most houses would probably not be up to current standards as they are updated continuously. I suppose it depends what the problems are really.

BitterAndTwisted

The usual FTB survey-jitters

G_M

NervousHomeowner wrote: »

...
The report showed that the property would not get a satisfactory EICR certificate & needed £1500 worth of work (Itemised in a proper quote) to get the certificate.

The report also advised that the heating system needed redoing as the heaters were just plugged into wall sockets, not actually wired into the electrics and that there were other things around the property that needed doing, but that these didn't need to be done to get the EICR certificate.

Without seeing what the report actually said, and what work it recommends, it is hard to comment.

HOWEVER, I suspect that the electrician is listing work:

a) because he wants to get a job out of it and (more importantly)
b) because the work is required to get the electrics up to the standard tocomply with current building Regulation standards.

The relevance of my underlining is that very few properties are at that standard. Indeed, only properties that have been built since the standards were last upgraded (which happens every few years!) would comply. (or if they had been recently re-wired.

My own property I had completely re-wired 10 years ago, obviously to the standard at that time, but it would not not now comply with current standards as they have since changed! However the electrics are perfectly safe, and if I weretosell, and a buyer cameto me and said "your electrics don't meet current standards so can't be issued with a current EICR certificate, so I want you to spend another £1000", I'd tell them to take a running jump!

My point? Tell us what needs doing. I mean... really needs doing!

If the electric wiring is 1950s rubber cable which is rotting, fair enough! But you don't say, sowe cannot advise.

As for the heaters. Well,you must have seen that the heating system was electric plug-in heaters, so this can hardly have been a surprise toyou.

fishpond

Maybe the mortgage company insist on a NICEIC Cert, and the only way to get it is a qualified electrician to do the necessary work.
Just a thought.

chickaroonee

fishpond wrote: »

Maybe the mortgage company insist on a NICEIC Cert, and the only way to get it is a qualified electrician to do the necessary work.
Just a thought.

never heard of a mortgage company insisting on that, maybe a retention if something flagged up on survey/and or an electrical inspection but not that certificate.

I think if they did it'd have a pretty big affect on the mortgage market (but good for electricians!)

NervousHomeowner

Thanks for the replies everyone!

With regards to the work that needs doing, it isn't just little bits and bobs that aren't up to date with the latest standards, it is all fairly substantial stuff.

The report lists (This is all as it is written in the report):
- Mains electrics on ground floor worn, undersized, original braided construction.
- Mains earthing conductor undersized, adapted from original conduit construction. Boxed in, no access.
- Main lighting circuit does not have earth conductor with metallic light fittings installed in living room & bedrooms.
- Immersion heater does not have built-in cut out that will opperate if stored water temp. reaches 98oc if thermostat fails. Storage tank is plastic.
- Socket circuit 5 feeding sockets to hall, lounge, kitchen is 2.5mm radial fused at 30A (Overcurrent protective device too high to protect installed cables)
- Main socket circuit 4 does not have a dedicated CPC earth.
- Cooker cable runs through wall to isolator.
- No 30mA protection to socket circuits
- No 30mA RCD protection for cables burried in plaster at depth of 50mm or less - all circuits.
- No 30mA RCD protection to lighting circuit and heater in bathroom. Local supplimentary earth not present.

I think those were just the ones noted C1 in the electrical report as there are further things that have been mentioned (like getting rid of dead connections etc. at the main board and changing out a heater in the bathroom because it is very old etc. etc.)

With regards to the heating, no, we didn't know they weren't properly wired in as the heaters have been mounted on the wall to look like 'proper' storage heaters. If it hadn't been for the electrician mentioning it, I would have just thought they were 'proper' heaters.

ETA: Only asked about the electricians report because it was advised to us by our ex mortgage broker. Plus, as the property was rented out before being put on the market, we assumed the owner would have a current electrical certificate due to needing to provide one to their previous tenants. Nothing about a retention yet but our broker has mentioned it may be possible due to the extent of the work that needs doing, we are just crossing our fingers that that doesn't happen.

chickaroonee

What did your surveyor value the property at?

NervousHomeowner

chickaroonee wrote: »

What did your surveyor value the property at?

£121,000. We have offered £122,000. So roughly the cost of the work that needs doing.

chickaroonee

Well in that case I'd have no hesitation in lowering my offer to £121k, the seller would be silly to refuse.

I'd insist on lowering the offer and then doing the work yourself after purchase (so you know it is done properly).