Seller failing to complete on sale of flat - Help!

mi5tery

Guest101 wrote: »

It sounds like you did everything right. I can't see what reasonable action I would've done differently. That at least makes me feel a bit better.

But please bear in mind the following: Just because the tenancy you've seen relates to one person, does not mean the other 2 tenants dont have rights. They have a contract with the Lead Tenant, as opposed to the Vendor, but it's still a contract in law. I would reccomend one option - as the tenants seem like reasonable people. Go over once more and ask them outright, what would it take for them to be out in 2 weeks? Just tell them to name a figure. Then go to you rsolicitor and say this is the figure they want, the vendor must pay this before completion is done. Meanwhile the money keeps racking up daily - your costs etc for which you will sue.That's a superb idea - thank you. I was genuinely worried for the tenants when I was falsely informed they had been evicted knowing that the initial tenant had claimed to know nothing about having to move out.

To answer some previous question's, the email from his solicitor to state it is not released should be fine. Just need to now notify that there is to be no completion without your specific say so.I've just sent an email to that effect.

I'll post an update once I've managed to speak with my solicitor.

DRP

not a great situation , OPs. Thanks for keeping us informed.

Notwithstanding all the other problems that need sorting, I would certainly want to see written, signed, witnessed proof that the tenants & LL have surrendered the tenancy before I completed on this one...

richardvc

What a nightmare !

Cannot offer any help but I do wish you luck.

This looks like a lot of cheating / lying / posturing has been going on. The vendor needs sorting !

G_M

The strong lesson (for other buyers) in this is:

If you are considering buying aproperty with tenants in it, do not Exchange Contracts until they have left (and you have checked).

Personally, I would not even go that far. I would refuse to spend money (on solicitor, mortgage application, surveyor etc) until the tenants had left.

Sellers who hope to continue to receive rent up to the last minute and find a buyer are trying to have their cake and eat it.

As we see here, removal of tenants is not an easy/instant process, and sellers or their agents who say "We've served notice. They'll be gone by xxx." are being misleading.

mi5tery

:eek:UPDATE:eek: (crazy one I might add!):

I've not managed to get through to my solicitor yet as she is apparently dealing with completion for other clients.

I just had a call from the EA. He met with M at the property (to get the keys, and apparently for M to show the property was empty - we know different). Apparently M had come down in a Porsche Cheyanne and some friends. He was apparently 6"2' and 19 stone and muscles all over, his friends were equally built - as the EA put it "not someone you'd want to mess with".

Anyway, it became apparent that the flat was not empty and none of the required works (there was previously a leak from the water tank that had rendered the staircase light non-functional and he had to make good all damage) had been completed. M told the tenant (sublet) who had opened the door, that the lead tenant had broken his contract by subletting and he had been served notice. The tenant was adamant no notice had been served. ETA: Additionally, the tenants had taken time off work so that the letting agents builders could fix these issues - it didn't happen!

Thankfully M and his friends left the tenant at this stage in order to go talk to the letting agent who are around the corner. M told the EA not to worry, and they'll get everything sorted out over the weekend. ETA: correction by Tuesday/Wednesday.

EA told me that he wouldn't particularly want them visiting his office!


ETA: Got another call form the EA.

EA received a call from the letting agents (the poor guy was stuttering as M and his friends were standing beside him), they saud the notice had definitely been served - not got a date from them though.

EA then got a call from the lead tenant. Apparently he was served with notice only two days ago! And for all likes and purposes he has an AST until the end of December. However, he is willing to move, but has yet to work out how much that will put him out of pocket. The EA asked him would it be £1k? The tenant said maybe, he has no idea - he's lived in the flat for 8 years!

DRP

mi5tery wrote: »

:eek:UPDATE:eek: (crazy one I might add!):

I've not managed to get through to my solicitor yet as she is apparently dealing with completion for other clients.

I just had a call from the EA. He met with M at the property (to get the keys, and apparently for M to show the property was empty - we know different). Apparently M had come down in a Porsche Cheyanne and some friends. He was apparently 6"2' and 19 stone and muscles all over, his friends were equally built - as the EA put it "not someone you'd want to mess with".

Anyway, it became apparent that the flat was not empty and none of the required works (there was previously a leak from the water tank that had rendered the staircase light non-functional and he had to make good all damage) had been completed. M told the tenant (sublet) who had opened the door, that the lead tenant had broken his contract by subletting and he had been served notice. The tenant was adamant no notice had been served.

Thankfully M and his friends left the tenant at this stage in order to go talk to the letting agent who are around the corner. M told the EA not to worry, and they'll get everything sorted out over the weekend.

EA told me that he wouldn't particularly want them visiting his office!


ETA: Got another call form the EA.

EA received a call from the letting agents (the poor guy was stuttering as M and his friends were standing beside him), they saud the notice had definitely been served - not got a date from them though.

EA then got a call from the lead tenant. Apparently he was served with notice only two days ago! And for all likes and purposes he has an AST until the end of December. However, he is willing to move, but has yet to work out how much that will put him out of pocket. The EA asked him would it be £1k? The tenant said maybe, he has no idea - he's lived in the flat for 8 years!

definitely a time to use this icon: :eek:

remember - just because the place is empty , doesn't mean the tenancy has been legally terminated! you could still end up being someone's landlord and/or at the wrong end of some kind of claim for unlawful eviction...

I would certainly want to see written, signed, witnessed proof that the tenants & LL have surrendered the tenancy before I completed on this one...

Guest101

What an update, sounds very 'sopranos'. Yes just double check the tenants are happy to surrender, and get it in writing.

G_M

DRP wrote: »

definitely a time to use this icon: :eek:

remember - just because the place is empty , doesn't mean the tenancy has been legally terminated! you could still end up being someone's landlord and/or at the wrong end of some kind of claim for unlawful eviction...

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Insist on seeing the written, jointly signed & dated, tenancy surrender document.

edit: witnessed.

mrs_mi5tery

Just got home - had to take the rest of the day off. I'm a teacher, no such thing as 'working from home' for us!!!

:eek: is right. Feeling very sorry for that poor tenant right now, and the letting agent.

DRP wrote: »

definitely a time to use this icon: :eek:

remember - just because the place is empty , doesn't mean the tenancy has been legally terminated! you could still end up being someone's landlord and/or at the wrong end of some kind of claim for unlawful eviction...

Absolutely, we shall be ensuring lead tenant signs a document saying he has surrendered all rights to his lease in order to cover our backs. There will be no completion on our end even if property is empty unless we get this.

(This is the thing: We're the type who researches and researches and covers every contingency we can think of... yet this still happened!!)

Anyway. Going forward, the lesson we shall pass to others will be to try and insist that the property is vacant before exchange.

But here's the rub: we tried that. But the law is not on our side, it is ALWAYS on the side of the seller. As a result, we insisted and insisted and insisted but he did not want to lose rental income. Our options were:
a) pay him what he would loose in rental income (we're on a budget, so not an option we really wanted)
b) proceed with exchange so then we'd have the law on our side in this situation
or c) walk away. As my husband has already stated, walking away was not really an option as there simply are no alternatives to this property in the area.

That being said, it still will be our advice to any seller: do as much as you can to insist it is vacant at exchange.

G_M

Sorry - I have to take issue..:

mrs_mi5tery wrote: »

..........
(This is the thing: We're the type who researches and researches and covers every contingency we can think of... yet this still happened!!) clearly not researched enough..

Anyway. Going forward, the lesson we shall pass to others will be to [STRIKE](Try and[/STRIKE]) insist that the property is vacant before exchange.

But here's the rub: we tried that. But the law is not on our side, it is ALWAYS on the side of the seller.
???? how so? You are free to demand the tenants are evicted before you instruct a surveyor, far less Exchange!
As a result, we insisted and insisted and insisted but he did not want to lose rental income.
The seller had 3 options:
a) lose rental income
b) lose the sale
c) bluff gullible buyer into foolishly Exchanging on a tenanted property!
Our options were:
a) pay him what he would loose in rental income (we're on a budget, so not an option we really wanted) a madoption anyway
b) proceed with exchange so then we'd have the law on our side in this situation a mad option as you have found
or c) walk away.
Indeed. and the law is on your side until Exchange as you have that option.
As my husband has already stated, walking away was not really an option as there simply are no alternatives to this property in the area.
Unless you are in some remote rural location, I doubt this, but...

That being said, it still will be my advice to any seller: do [STRIKE](as much as you can to)[/STRIKE]insist it is vacant before instructing solicitors/surveyors etc.