Seller failing to complete on sale of flat - Help!

Paul_the_Painter

Do a search by the username welshwoofs to see how well this can turn out for you. You might have to sit down with a few mugs of tea to get through it, but believe me it's worth it!
Call your solicitor, then email him/her, follow up with a written (yes written on actual paper) letter, telling them not to complete without written instructions.
Send it special delivery, keep a copy. Probably overkill, but also the cheapest insurance policy you will ever buy.
I'm afraid you have moved outside of the standard buying a property scenario, and need to protect your interests.
PLEASE KEEP US UPDATED

mi5tery

Hi AFK_Matrix, thanks for taking time to reply,

AFK_Matrix wrote: »

To be frank your going to either have to take over the tenancies and become a landloard as their AST doesn't finish till October. You can then serve your Section 21 notice in August thus giving 2 months notice. Then you have to prey they do vacate at the end of the 2 months otherwise you have to go to court, then get balifs etc which all costs money.

Or get your solicitor to talk to the vendors solicitor to demand they give notice to the tenants in August and again hope they move out in October. You will also as previously said need to demand compensation from the vendor as he is liable for your expense as he hasn't completed.

The tenancy agreement I was sent was an old one, I saw the expiry date as 31 Oct 13, and the start date as 1 May 2012 and says it's for 6 months. I know a new agreement has been made since, but don't know the details. I'll speak to my solicitor tomorrow and see if I can get the exact details.

If it is still within the AST term, it sounds like it's going to be a right pain. I can't believe the vender dropped us in it like this. Thanks for your response - I'll try not to be too stressed by the possibilities!

observations_from_a_hill

I'm sure your solicitor will have registered notice of your contract against the title, but you may want to check this for reassurance.

I can think of only two reasons for seller behaving like this:-

1. Idiocy.

2. Repossession proceedings are in train.

Land Registry registers things strictly in order of receipt, so your contract needs to be noted now and in priority to any court orders.

mi5tery

Hi G_M,

Discuss with your solicitor, but a hotel seems perfectly reasonable. If your parents lived overseas, and you had nowhere to go......Discuss claimimg an interim payment towards hotel bills- doubtless your parents will either kick you out in a week, or be charging you rent???Well if I'm going to a hotel... Hilton probably will be considered unreasonable right?

Do not feel any sympathy for these dirt-rags. The seller must have known there were tenants there. he has deliberately dropped you in it.In terms of sympathy, maybe the existing tenants, but the vendor... absolutely not!

(when it's all over, drop HMRC tax-fraud line an email in case he's not been declaring his rent for income tax....or capital gains tax after the sale)LOL, I may just do that!

mi5tery

Hi Paul the Painter,

Thanks for taking time to reply to me.

Paul_the_Painter wrote: »

Do a search by the username welshwoofs to see how well this can turn out for you. You might have to sit down with a few mugs of tea to get through it, but believe me it's worth it!
Call your solicitor, then email him/her, follow up with a written (yes written on actual paper) letter, telling them not to complete without written instructions.
Send it special delivery, keep a copy. Probably overkill, but also the cheapest insurance policy you will every buy.
I'm afraid you have moved outside of the standard buying a property scenario, and need to protect your interests.
PLEASE KEEP US UPDATED

My wife and I did stumble upon that thread. 51 pages!!! The Mrs has had a read of it already. Slightly different scenario, but one of the very few circumstances where the seller doesn't complete. Crazy stuff!

Did you suggest I actually put pen to paper? Wow! LOL! I may just follow your advice. I'll add the special delivery charge to my claim!

Paul_the_Painter

It's probably unnecessary to write, but the emphasis is on probably! The last thing you want to be is an accidental landlord.
You could come out of this smelling of roses, your vendor has exchanged, but cannot complete. However he/she is obligated to complete, but he/she also has tenants and obligations to them. I would not want to be in your vendors position. You could end up with a large payout, but don't bank on it!

This will be very expensive for your vendor, but you need to stay focused on what you want. There may come a time when you are offered the opportunity to walk away from the deal with a large chunk of cash, think about what you would say if that happened. Also forget about moving in the immediate future, it may happen but prepare for a significant delay

franklee

mi5tery wrote: »

No I am not a LL, and don't want to be either. I have seen a copy of the tenancy agreement and it states the AST ends 31 Oct 13, and I believe there is a two month notice period.

Why were you expecting the tenants gone if the fixed term is till Oct? Were you expecting notice to be given under a break clause (is there a break clause?) and if so why didn't you get sight of the notice? More importantly why did your solicitor let you exchange contracts before the tenants had vacated or explain to you the procedures and time it would take to evict them? I take it you told your solicitor it was let? I take it you are using a local solicitor selected yourself and not one of these online conveyancing places or anyone linked to the vendor.

Not to mention why did the vendor's solicitor let him take a punt the tenants (who haven't been given notice) would go?

As for comments about your living in a hotel and getting this back, I wouldn't take on any extra unnecessary expenses as if the vendor goes bust you won't get them back.

It seems to be an unusual combination of a negligent seller and buyer with both their solicitors snoozing on the job. Why would a seller put themselves in this position when they know they can't complete? Could it be fraud? Who has your deposit now? I take it your solicitor checked the "vendor" owned the property?

The whole thing smells well dodgy / unbelievable to me ...

rrtt

Can't offer any specific help or advice here, but just wanted to say to mi5tery and his missus how much I feel for them and offer moral support - as someone also going thru the buying process currently, I cannot imagine how stressful such a nightmare scenario must be. All power to your elbows bud, stay strong, we should all be grateful to you for ridding the market of at least one scumbug seller.

I also hugely admire the people who've gone out of their way to offer clearly considerable time and expertise in assisting with advice on the thread - thank goodness for MSE forum in situations like this, where else could you get such in-depth support so fast! well done guys/gals.
Fingers crossed for you mi5tery

*adds special 'praying' icon*!

mrs_mi5tery

Thought I'd pop in here, this is the Mrs as the username suggests.

First of all, thank you for the kind words and thoughtful suggestions offered so far, Hubby and I are grateful for your responses.

We're FTBs and consider ourselves to be fairly well researched FTB's at that. I have been haunting the MSE boards and all relevant threads since we began house hunting and have employed all the useful advice given here (which is legion!) when hunting, negotiating etc etc.

Time and time again (verbally and in writing), we asked about the tenants and time and time again, we were told vacant possession. The tenants themselves also indicated that they were aware of this fact. We were very forceful on this as we made it clear to the vendor we would NOT be interested if the property came with a sitting tenant. The fact is, the lead tenant, in whose name the tenancy is in, has been in the property since 2006. Did we check if he was on an AST? No. More fool us. We did not research tenancy agreements and did not realise... but ignorance is not an excuse. However, the vendor time and time again (we have proof of this) insisted it was vacant possession and like I said, even the tenant indicated he knew he was to move on. He [ie, the tenant] additionally indicated he had a one month notice period, as I asked him this outright.

The AST only became apparent yesterday when the EA went to the letting agency. Our EA does not work on Wednesday and the vendor's solicitor was blaming him for the reason the vendor failed to complete that day. Obviously our EA was not too pleased, so he went to the letting agency who told him that they had issued the notice to the tenants as per the vendors instruction and that was that. And that issuing the notice was futile, they would not be chasing the tenants, as actually the tenancy doesn't finish until October.

This contravenes what the tenant we met at the door yesterday told us, who claimed that no notice has arrived. Of course, today, we will be making our solicitor request proof of notice. Should we have done so in advance? I see now that we should have, but I'm fairly certain that the vacant possession clause in the contract is weight enough on our side with regards to moving forward.

As my husband said, when our offer on the property was accepted, the vendor insisted he wanted completion to be within 21 days. (In fact,
he wanted exchange and completion within the week!!!!). At this point, we did say that tenants were still in the property how would this be possible, but he assured both us and the EA both verbally and in writing, that notice had been served and they would be moving out shortly.

We agreed to his 21 day term, cos quite frankly, we needed to be quick too. As a result, he would have his solicitor hound ours every day, threatening that if exchange didn't take place that day, he would walk away. We were holding out to exchange so that it could be done very close to completion, wanting him to sort the property out first, but because he pushed for over two weeks in this manner, we then paid additional fees to our solicitor to ensure the additional clauses were added to the contract regarding the work he had agreed to carry out before completion. Obviously, vacant possession was a condition in the contract ALREADY at this point, and not a clause we had added in after.

Now that his client is in breach, the vendor's solicitor who was so vocal previously when hounding our solicitor, has gone quiet. Other than 'I've spoken to my client regarding the ramifications of failing to complete' and claims of his client having arranged with us directly to see the vacant and prepared property at strange times of the day - totally false on both accounts (contact with us/vacant&prepared).

Vendor definitely owns the property. Solicitor checked, and we checked ourselves too.

And finally, we may have a small ray of hope: the tenancy is only in one fella's name, he has sublet the property to the other two. We will be asking for site of the terms of contract for the AST regarding this.

My opinion? Vendor in need of money asap, and thought he could get it easily from us without having to lift a finger in return. Maybe even a con job - he had no real intention of selling the property, as the EA still doesn't have the keys yet either.

Guest101

mrs_mi5tery wrote: »

Thought I'd pop in here, this is the Mrs as the username suggests.

First of all, thank you for the kind words and thoughtful suggestions offered so far, Hubby and I are grateful for your responses.

We're FTBs and consider ourselves to be fairly well researched FTB's at that. I have been haunting the MSE boards and all relevant threads since we began house hunting and have employed all the useful advice given here (which is legion!) when hunting, negotiating etc etc.

Time and time again (verbally and in writing), we asked about the tenants and time and time again, we were told vacant possession. The tenants themselves also indicated that they were aware of this fact. We were very forceful on this as we made it clear to the vendor we would NOT be interested if the property came with a sitting tenant. The fact is, the lead tenant, in whose name the tenancy is in, has been in the property since 2006. Did we check if he was on an AST? No. More fool us. We did not research tenancy agreements and did not realise... but ignorance is not an excuse. However, the vendor time and time again (we have proof of this) insisted it was vacant possession and like I said, even the tenant indicated he knew he was to move on. He [ie, the tenant] additionally indicated he had a one month notice period, as I asked him this outright.

The AST only became apparent yesterday when the EA went to the letting agency. Our EA does not work on Wednesday and the vendor's solicitor was blaming him for the reason the vendor failed to complete that day. Obviously our EA was not too pleased, so he went to the letting agency who told him that they had issued the notice to the tenants as per the vendors instruction and that was that. And that issuing the notice was futile, they would not be chasing the tenants, as actually the tenancy doesn't finish until October.

This contravenes what the tenant we met at the door yesterday told us, who claimed that no notice has arrived. Of course, today, we will be making our solicitor request proof of notice. Should we have done so in advance? I see now that we should have, but I'm fairly certain that the vacant possession clause in the contract is weight enough on our side with regards to moving forward.

As my husband said, when our offer on the property was accepted, the vendor insisted he wanted completion to be within 21 days. (In fact,
he wanted exchange and completion within the week!!!!). At this point, we did say that tenants were still in the property how would this be possible, but he assured both us and the EA both verbally and in writing, that notice had been served and they would be moving out shortly.

We agreed to his 21 day term, cos quite frankly, we needed to be quick too. As a result, he would have his solicitor hound ours every day, threatening that if exchange didn't take place that day, he would walk away. We were holding out to exchange so that it could be done very close to completion, wanting him to sort the property out first, but because he pushed for over two weeks in this manner, we then paid additional fees to our solicitor to ensure the additional clauses were added to the contract regarding the work he had agreed to carry out before completion. Obviously, vacant possession was a condition in the contract ALREADY at this point, and not a clause we had added in after.

Now that his client is in breach, the vendor's solicitor who was so vocal previously when hounding our solicitor, has gone quiet. Other than 'I've spoken to my client regarding the ramifications of failing to complete' and claims of his client having arranged with us directly to see the vacant and prepared property at strange times of the day - totally false on both accounts (contact with us/vacant&prepared).

Vendor definitely owns the property. Solicitor checked, and we checked ourselves too.

And finally, we may have a small ray of hope: the tenancy is only in one fella's name, he has sublet the property to the other two. We will be asking for site of the terms of contract for the AST regarding this.

My opinion? Vendor in need of money asap, and thought he could get it easily from us without having to lift a finger in return. Maybe even a con job - he had no real intention of selling the property, as the EA still doesn't have the keys yet either.

It sounds like you did everything right. I can't see what reasonable action I would've done differently.

But please bear in mind the following: Just because the tenancy you've seen relates to one person, does not mean the other 2 tenants dont have rights. They have a contract with the Lead Tenant, as opposed to the Vendor, but it's still a contract in law. I would reccomend one option - as the tenants seem like reasonable people. Go over once more and ask them outright, what would it take for them to be out in 2 weeks? Just tell them to name a figure. Then go to you rsolicitor and say this is the figure they want, the vendor must pay this before completion is done. Meanwhile the money keeps racking up daily - your costs etc for which you will sue.

To answer some previous question's, the email from his solicitor to state it is not released should be fine. Just need to now notify that there is to be no completion without your specific say so.