Seller failing to complete on sale of flat - Help!

kmmr

ValHaller wrote: »

Whoa!!!! If there is a mortgage shortfall, the vendor's lender will not lift the charge on the property - and OP could find the property repo'd from under them. Which is why OP's mortgage lender will not release funds unless the vendor's mortgage is cleared.

Well, yes, I assumed the solicitor would ensure the charge was lifted. It would be the normal case for negative equity - which is (if the lender agrees) the shortfall is paid off, or transferred to an unsecured loan. What I mean is, the OP shouldn't be too swayed by claims of poverty as there is money available, it's just a question of who ends up with any shortfall. Obviously it should be the vendor one way or another!

DaftyDuck wrote: »

Thirdly, having read through this thread, the impression I get is that the seller is probably no idiot, not knowing what they are doing, and confused and confounded, but much more likely to be canny and manipulative. ... not least by introducing this M as his man-on-the-ground. I realise that your solicitor has stated that funds will not be released if completion is not satisfactory, but I'd suggest getting a statement from both solicitors that all funds will be returned completely by a certain date, should completion not be met by blah blah blah. I think (again, my initial sentence be noted) this should gain you some cover through their insurance, should seller get his grubbies on any of your cash. That's what's really troubling me; I don't think he's a naive idiot at all.

I know others have said, but now is the time to get a new lock or two for the door(s). Personally, I would be on the phone to my solicitor, at the flat, with the selling agent, and all keys, at the time of completion, and would only authorise completion once I had checked, and the selling agent had confirmed, that vacant possession was yours. I'm not sure what weight (none, I suspect) the agent's view would really carry, but I suspect that, although he "works for the client", by now he's not exactly enamoured of that role. If he, as agent for the seller, and you, are both convinced the property is empty, vacant, and yours for the paying, then and only then would I pay.

I just want to reiterate that I don't think the seller is anything but canny, and I think he knows exactly what he's done to you, and to his tenants, and to his agent.That's why he was pushing for fast exchange & completion, hoping it would all be a done & completed deal, before anyone noticed.

I agree with the above, this isn't a foolish seller, they sound fairly harsh and aggressive - especially with their tenants.

Re vacant possession - I think the Mi5ster'ies are clear that the evidence should include a document signed by the tenants too. No good just seeing it is empty and then the tenants come after you for unlawful eviction.

franklee

kmmr wrote: »

I agree with the above, this isn't a foolish seller, they sound fairly harsh and aggressive - especially with their tenants.

Agreed.

If any this thread is true 1K is paltry compared to the costs of moving and to the amount of money at stake for the LL, especially if divided by several tenants. I'd budget 600 removal van, 400 two weeks overlapping rent, 200-400 agent's fees, a few hundred lost utility and broadband fixes. Then there a months hard work packing cleaning the new property, unpacking, letter writing, chasing accounts switchover etc. Plus lost earnings for turning down work currently lined up, possibly losing follow on work if it's given to someone else. Besides which moving in two weeks may not be physically possible I know it takes me a month to pack etc. So I do not see the tenant's time and inconvenience paid for there unless they're renting furnished with very few possessions and few accounts to move. After all they have a contract fixed till October (or December it varies in this thread) which all parties knew about before contracts were exchanged so I see no reason why everyone expects the tenants to bend over without a hefty payout for their troubles or at all. Not to mention it was posted (if any of this is true LOL) the tenant was offered 1,000 last week and there is no evidence that was acceptable. Plus the new property the agent has found may not be acceptable, in the right location, may be a higher rent etc. If the tenants understand things sufficiently I see no reason for them to settle anywhere near that low unless they are intimidated by threats of physical eviction. I would have thought they are being harassed at the very least because I very much doubt the LL will let them be he has too much money to lose and shame on anyone who condones this.

BTW if the LL hasn't protected the tenant's deposit etc. then his notice wouldn't be valid anyway unless he returns the deposit. He'd likely not evict the tenants legally till next spring.

kmmr

Hi,

I'm sure you are too busy with the stress of this situation, but please let us know if you are moving today! Somehow I sense not... but hope its going as well as it can be.

mi5tery

Thank you DaftyDuck, kmmr and franklee for your replies.

Things are really very stressful with us at the moment.

I'm not able to give an update right now (because there's so much to give and I'm at work and also very distressed).

kmmr you are correct, we have not moved yet.

The mrs or I will try to post an update tonight. Please bear with us.

Thank you again everyone for your support and kind words.

DaftyDuck

Chin up, fingers crossed, really hoping outcome is OK for you both.

DD

mi5tery

Hi all,

Firstly apologies for our absence of replies to this thread over the last week. Secondly, apologies for this long post - please have a mug of tea ready before you read.

Right, I'm not even sure where to start! I think the easiest way is by first summarising where we were lst (I have skipped some pretty crazy stuff, please read earlier updates for those details):

1. We were supposed to complete on the purchase of a leasehold flat on Wed 19th June 2013.
2. Completion did not take place due to to certain requirements as stated in contract for exchange not being met, the biggest of which being vacant possession - there were still tenants living in the flat.
3. The full funds for the purchase of this flat were sent to the seller's solicitor with an explicit "hold to order" requirement - meaning the funds should not be released without the explicit permission of my solicitor. The seller's solicitor has confirmed this:

   "We hereby undertake not to release any funds to our client or redeem any charges. We can also confirm monies will be held to your order until you are satisfied that all conditions have been met."

4. The tenant was served a Section 21 possession notice on 20/06/13 (the day after we were supposed to complete) with a date of expiry 06/12/2013 by the letting agent. (tenant allowed me to photograph this)
5. The tenants have an AST which ends on 6 December 2013 (something we were initially unaware of).
6. Vendor's solicitor emailed mine saying:

   "I have spoke to my client today who has agreed a fee with the tenant to vacate the property by Tuesday 25th June and also stated all works will be completed by then."

7. A little later that same day, the vendor's solicitor emailed mine saying:

   "To my knowledge and speaking with my client and agent i believe that all work and the tenant vacating the property will be no later than Thursday 27 June."

8. The tenants are willing to move out and surrender their lease if they are compensated for their troubles, circa £1k - according to the EA.

I think that's where we last were. If I've missed something please reply and let me know.

Right, now where to start with last week's crazy?!

Basically this entire week was filled with miscommunication or equally as bad, no communication.

On Monday my solicitor forwarded me the email sent through to her on Friday after COB, claiming all will be done no later than Thursday (see quote in summary). Both Monday and Tuesday, my solicitor sent through emails and made phone calls to the vendor's solicitor to no reply/answer. I even got the number off of her and both my wife and I tried to call throughout the day and for the rest of the week - the phone just rings and then eventually cuts out. Highly frustrated (and from advice on this forum), we intruct the solicitor to recall our funds immediately - do not wait for the ten working days to expire (as per the notice to complete). Stressing that we are NOT withdrawing from the sale, and we are ready and willing to complete, however we want our solicitor to hold on to the funds until completion. Our solicitor sends the recall order as per our instruction.

Meanwhile...

The seller has been uncontactable, well he is not taking/returning any calls from the EA. Again this is deeply concerning and we are getting really frustrated and quite anxious at this stage. What on Earth is going on?

The EA gets through to M who says that he will be going down on Wed 27th to pay the tenant £1k to move out and the letting agent had found alternative accommodation for the tenant. Note: the EA's conversation with M is the only actual conversation had with the seller's represetatives this entire week.

It's now Wednesday, I check with my solicitor and no response from the seller's solicitor yet, she is also frustrated and decides to threaten the seller's solicitor with copying in the SRA if they do not respond in some way or form. BTW our funds have not been returned to our solicitor as per the order. This is really freaking us out now.

My wife and I are really distressed and have no idea what to do, we know the only person who has actually taken a call this week is M. So we decide it's the only thing to do: I call the number I have saved from when M called me. The same Northern accent I heard previously answered the call, when I referred to M by his name, he denied it was him and said he was looking after M's phone for a few days as he was sorting stuff out. I said he sounded like M, to which he laughed it off and couldn't get off the phone fast enough. Outleak? Bleak.

Thursday evening, and we're circling the drain. At this point, our imaginations a running wild and for a while there we were convinced we had been scammed. It was a very uncomfortable night for us... But our minds were put at ease in the morning by our solicitor who did some checking and reassured us that regardless of what may have happened, we were safe and our funds would be covered.

Same evening, my wife calls her parents, who are just back in the country and fills them in. Her Mum took M and the seller's numbers from us and called them - this time M did not pretend to be someone else, though he did concoct yet another story for my mother-in-law: that he did turn up at the house on Wednesday with £1k and the tenant sent him packing. The seller claimed he had just returned to the country having been abroad all week and he would be sorting things out in the morning. He also indicated that he was reluctant to compensate the tenants as the lead tenant had broken his contract by subletting: giving us the impression that the seller hopes to evict him for breaking his contract rather than paying for him to leave early.

Turns out, EA had some success getting a hold of the seller also: looking through his files he found a landline number for the seller's workplace, so he called that. Mr Seller had a bit of a rude awakening when the EA called!! He didn't have anything to say however, just listened to the EA and said he'd sort it. This conversation took place before my mother-in-law's conversation with him, but I found out about it after.

Still Thursday evening. Everyone we spoke to was giving us a different story regarding what was happening with the house. As far as we were concerned: they've got our money and tenants are still in the house, so they've got our house too. However. We're not the only victims: the tenants are too, so we decided to drive over and see what they've been told/what they're doing.

Turns out, they've had zero contact with the seller at all. Only person they've spoken to is the EA when they informed him LAST Friday that provided they were compensated their costs, they'd be willing to move out early. This still holds true - but they're waiting on someone to contact them and make said arrangements! On top of that, we learn that the letting agents are also acting in their own interest and are not sending builders/electrician over to fix the water leak damage that occured three weeks ago. Also, despite being told to find alternative 3-bed accomodation for the tenants, the LA's are sitting back and doing nothing about that really.

Oh, and M's story about coming to the house on Wednesday with £1k cash-in-hand? Not true.

Tenants were also shocked to see the email we had received from the seller's solicitor Friday previous stating that seller and tenants had spoken and an agreement to move out for £1k by Tuesday had been reached as this conversation simply had not taken place!

So, we're at Friday now, we spoke to our solicitor about our funds, as mentioned earlier. Solicitor reassures us that checks and double-checks have been made regarding the seller's solicitor and as such it is highly unlikely to be a scam situation, just poor professional conduct on the part of the solicitor (maybe he's gone on holiday and forgot to set an out-of-office reply?). It's now been a whole week, and no response to emails, and no phone calls answered. No voice mail option either. I asked specifically that if it did turn out to be a scam, will our solicitor's indemnity insurance cover our full funds, and she assured they would be. Whew.

EA tried to call the seller again today, but he was back to his tricks of not answering phone calls. He did however send a short text, saying he was arranging for the tenant to move out.

...and that's our current situation.

Despite all the reassurances regarding our funds, I know we'll feel a lot happier once the funds are back in our solicitor's account, and I hope that does happen early next week. Not sure if the seller will be able to come to an agreement with the tenant to move out by Wednesday (his 10-day deadline) somehow, I suspect not. Mainly because we've now another selfish player in the field - the letting agent!!!

chickaroonee

Wow I think you need to pull out of this after you get your funds back. It has nightmare written all over it.

st999

Demand the funds back and pull out, you'll never get the flat.

I am honestly amazed that you have even kept this going for so long.

It's just not worth the hassle.

mrs_mi5tery

We're legally unable to pull out before Wednesday else we'll forfeit our deposit. We've demanded our funds be returned already, but only as far as our solicitor's accounts.

BazzaDP

mrs_mi5tery wrote: »

We're legally unable to pull out before Wednesday else we'll forfeit our deposit. We've demanded our funds be returned already, but only as far as our solicitor's accounts.

Did your solicitor say this? Surely they have broken the contract already by not completing on contract date? Or does a contact always have this 10 grace period to make amends?

I would definitely get your funds back as soon as you can and pull out. You've lost time and some money but God knows what else is waiting for you so do not complete!

Btw had your solicitor explained why they did not discover the tenants and check when they were legally required to move out by? Would have thought this should have been covered as part if the conveyancing...