Seller failing to complete on sale of flat - Help!

mi5tery

BazzaDP wrote: »

mi5tery and mrs_mi5tery I think you really need to draw a line in the sand. This could drag on for months or years.

If completion does not happen by Tuesday then I would instruct your solicitor to request the funds back from the vendor's solicitor so at least you get those back. Perhaps say you are not withdrawing from the sale just yet, but are uncomfortable leaving the sums with them while such uncertainty exists.

Then you need to have a long, hard think about what you will do if the sale does not happen. Obviously you will lose any costs so far (this can, and should, be claimed back from Vendor but that doesn't mean he will pay). Once you start to think this way, giving up the house won't seem as bad as it does now.

I really hope it works out for you but I think it's time to prepare for it not.

And btw stop feeling sorry for the tenants. They have lied to you at least once.

Hi BazzaDP,

Thank you for your reply.

I appreciate your underlying message that we should begin to prepare ourselves for the worst. I'm not sure we're quite ready to do this yet (although your message makes complete sense) as we have our heart set on this property - at this point in time.

I have spoken to my solicitor today to discuss further steps. As we have already given a notice to complete, we need to wait for the ten working days to pass in order to recover all the sums we've already paid should we decide to go down this route. In terms of our funds the last response from the vendor's solicitor stated:

We hereby undertake not to release any funds to our client or redeem any charges. We can also confirm monies will be held to your order until you are satisfied that all conditions have been met.

Having confirmed that the vendor's solicitor is indeed regulated (almost had a scare when the person my wife was talking on the phone with couldn't find the vendor's solicitor on the list), we feel a bit better regarding this confirmation.

Also, the vendor's solicitor believes that all work and the tenants vacating the property should take place no longer than Thursday 27th.

The EA is trying to get hold of the tenant to get his side of the story and also to find out if these dates align.

Apologies for the delay in giving an update, not going in to work for three days has made today rather hectic, and to make matters worse I think I've got the start of man-flu (Mrs mi5tery - there is such a thing!).

Will continue to keep you posted.

mi5tery

xylophone wrote: »

There might also be the possibility of pursuing the Vendor for Breach of Contract?
http://blog.aboutconveyancing.com/2009/12/purchase-conveyancing-danger-of-failing.html

Thanks xylophone,

Having spoken to a contract lawyer, we seem to have a solid case in pursuing him. The risk however would be that the vendor doesn't have money to pay us, in which case it wouldn't be worth the effort.

It is something we will most definitely consider once this is all done.

dotdash79

I wonder if it's worth agreeing compensation with the vendor before all the funds are released.

mi5tery

jonnyd281 wrote: »

I suppose if this went on long enough with the interest you could end up with a free flat - if you were patient enough.

My maths may be out, but I think that works out at over 25 years.

kmmr

BazzaDP wrote: »

mi5tery and mrs_mi5tery I think you really need to draw a line in the sand. This could drag on for months or years.

Whereas I think you should fight this for a while at least. It's easy for people to say 'there is another house', but in truth sometimes there isn't - or at least not now, and not at this price.

You have to know when to give up, but at the moment I would say prepare yourself to maybe lose it, but I think you are a long way from giving up!

mi5tery wrote: »

Thanks xylophone,
Having spoken to a contract lawyer, we seem to have a solid case in pursuing him. The risk however would be that the vendor doesn't have money to pay us, in which case it wouldn't be worth the effort.

It is something we will most definitely consider once this is all done.

You clearly have a case. There was a contract, he breached it. You can easily get the money from the vendor as he is about to get your money! Just agree to only release the purchase price less compensation. Any mortgage shortfall will be for the vendor to sort out with their mortgage company.

You have a few basic remedies.
- Specific performance: The courts will force the parties to complete the contract. ie - sell you the house at the agreed price.
- Financial losses. This isn't just the amount you have spent, but it is any (reasonable, financial) loss coming from the failure to complete the contract. eg. If you spend 6 months fighting this, and they refuse to complete and you give up. Then you try to buy an equivalent property, but it is £50k more expensive (due to market booming, or lack of availability), then the vendor has to pay the difference to you - as he caused the delay, and forced you to have to find an alternative to the contract he breached.

The law will try to put you in the position you would have been had the contract been completed - as far as that is possible with financial compensation.

I think that is broadly what happened with Welshwoofs case.

(Note, I am not a lawyer, but I studied contract law sometime in the mists of time)

dotdash79 wrote: »

I wonder if it's worth agreeing compensation with the vendor before all the funds are released.

I wouldn't let a penny go til all financial elements were agreed.

ValHaller

kmmr wrote: »

You clearly have a case. There was a contract, he breached it. You can easily get the money from the vendor as he is about to get your money! Just agree to only release the purchase price less compensation. Any mortgage shortfall will be for the vendor to sort out with their mortgage company.

Whoa!!!! If there is a mortgage shortfall, the vendor's lender will not lift the charge on the property - and OP could find the property repo'd from under them. Which is why OP's mortgage lender will not release funds unless the vendor's mortgage is cleared.

Perelandra

Quick question for those more knowledge,

The OP refers to the interest of 4% above base as interest on the property value as only coming to about £20 per day. Would I be right in thinking that this is on top of and costs that the OP incurs as a result of breach of contract (so the OP and his wife should be able to get their costs, plus the £20 per day back)?

OP (and Mrs OP)- I wish you the best of luck, and hope that everything works out tomorrow. Presumably you're going to have to go to the property to check that the tenants are indeed out, and that your other conditions have been met?

BazzaDP

Yes that's usually on top of costs. It's basically a very generous interest rate on your funds that you no longer have access to.

Mi5tery, good for you if you want to fight on - not saying you shouldn't. Just saying, start at least considering alternatives or at what point you are going to stop. Would hate to see this drag out for months and months, one day at a time with the resolution seeming like it's only a few days away each time. That's what appears to be happening now and must be crushing each time you're let down again.

Definitely have a look at what else there is out there. Who knows, better house might be there afteral and, although it would mean starting all over again, might be the better option in the long run. Who knows this might be a blessing!

Anyway, let's see what happens this week. Hopefully it will all be sorted!

mi5tery

Thanks dotdash79, kmmr, ValHaller, Perelandra and BazzaDP for your replies.

Apologies again for my delay in replying - this man flu is knocking me out, at least it meant I had a good night's sleep!

Perelandra wrote: »

OP (and Mrs OP)- I wish you the best of luck, and hope that everything works out tomorrow. Presumably you're going to have to go to the property to check that the tenants are indeed out, and that your other conditions have been met?

Thanks. I have to confirm the exact day, last the vendor's solicitor said was "latest Thursday". In terms of inspecting - absolutely! With so many broken assurances, I have to confirm this myself. It is a pain at the moment though because I've already had to take three days from work (which I intend completely to claim as an expense) and it's hard to keep taking days and get work done - at least my boss is understanding.

kmmr wrote: »

Whereas I think you should fight this for a while at least. It's easy for people to say 'there is another house', but in truth sometimes there isn't - or at least not now, and not at this price.

My wife and I are along a similar frame of mind at the moment. We don't want the vendor to think he can get away with nonsense like this so for now we are willing to fight! Thanks for your breakdown of options too - let's hope the matter is resolved before we have to consider any such action.

BazzaDP wrote: »

Just saying, start at least considering alternatives or at what point you are going to stop. Would hate to see this drag out for months and months, one day at a time with the resolution seeming like it's only a few days away each time. That's what appears to be happening now and must be crushing each time you're let down again.

Definitely have a look at what else there is out there. Who knows, better house might be there afteral and, although it would mean starting all over again, might be the better option in the long run. Who knows this might be a blessing!

I do understand your point about considering alternatives. Have been keeping an eye out for other properties, but currently there isn't others any which match our criteria for the price range we can afford. Thanks for the well wishes.

In other news:

I got an update from the EA yesterday. He said that he had spoken to M, and he (on behalf of the vendor) was going to pay the tenant £1000 to cover his moving expenses/inconvenience. Additionally, the letting agent has apparently found an alternative property for him to move into. I still need to clarify what this means in terms of the sub tenants. The EA has yet to get hold of the lead tenant to confirm the story (he's left a bunch of voicemails).

Question: as my funds are being 'held to order' by the seller's solicitor, can my solicitor specify the precise amount to release, or is it all or nothing? I'll try and clarify when I call my solicitor today anyway, just wondering if anyone was able in the meanwhile. If so, I intend on only instructing my solicitor to release the purchase price minus expenses and interest (hopefully when we eventually complete).

DaftyDuck

Firstly, I've admitted before, and I'll admit again, I know little of the law, whilst others here obviously do. However, I'm not sure your solicitor can specify the exact amount to release (other than the entirety) without a further written contract (or amendment), signed by vendor & purchaser - and than might cause additional delays. Otherwise the solicitors themselves would become liable for future disagreement as to what had been agreed. Therefore, it's worth working out costs and claims as soon as possible, and getting these cleared by all parties.

Secondly, useless though it is, my thoughts are with you... stress piled on stress piled on stress (piled on man-flu!) is never pretty.

Thirdly, having read through this thread, the impression I get is that the seller is probably no idiot, not knowing what they are doing, and confused and confounded, but much more likely to be canny and manipulative. ... not least by introducing this M as his man-on-the-ground. I realise that your solicitor has stated that funds will not be released if completion is not satisfactory, but I'd suggest getting a statement from both solicitors that all funds will be returned completely by a certain date, should completion not be met by blah blah blah. I think (again, my initial sentence be noted) this should gain you some cover through their insurance, should seller get his grubbies on any of your cash. That's what's really troubling me; I don't think he's a naive idiot at all.

I know others have said, but now is the time to get a new lock or two for the door(s). Personally, I would be on the phone to my solicitor, at the flat, with the selling agent, and all keys, at the time of completion, and would only authorise completion once I had checked, and the selling agent had confirmed, that vacant possession was yours. I'm not sure what weight (none, I suspect) the agent's view would really carry, but I suspect that, although he "works for the client", by now he's not exactly enamoured of that role. If he, as agent for the seller, and you, are both convinced the property is empty, vacant, and yours for the paying, then and only then would I pay.

I just want to reiterate that I don't think the seller is anything but canny, and I think he knows exactly what he's done to you, and to his tenants, and to his agent.That's why he was pushing for fast exchange & completion, hoping it would all be a done & completed deal, before anyone noticed.