Garden in dispute

JANETJ

Update
After the letter incident last week I called the freeholder who is also his landlord, I thought we could settle this amicably.
I agreed the tenant upstairs could come into my garden at a pre arranged time to collect stuff from his shed.
On Saturday I was really busy and had only a few minutes as I was passing to measure up the bedroom curtains.
I was unable to gain entry to the side gate as someone had clicked the lock on the side gate I use for entry into my flat.
I had forgotten the front door keys so was unable to get in.
Had loads of other stuff to do so went down yesterday. I had brought my keys with me and as I was passing through the hall collected my post, something I have not done for a few weeks, strangely I had just 2 pieces of post that had obviously been delivered that day one was from my solicitors with all the final documentation on my lease including the Land Registry document which outlines the garden as mine.
The other was from the local council telling me I had been taken to court for my council tax non payment. No other letters warning me that that they were taking me to court or bills saying I owed council tax.
Should say at this point I phoned tv licence, water, and council tax department when I first bought the flat and explained the situation that no one would be living there for quite some time because of the state of the place. I also asked that all correspondence until further notice should be sent to my home address.
When I arrived I immediately noticed that he had come into my garden and obviously climbed the fence not to collect stuff from his shed but to cut down bushes and hedges on the other garden. He was also keeping his bike their. Thus was not what I agreed to.
Whilst bringing things in I met the other sitting tenant who asked me when I was going to remove the fence panel so this guy could gain access to his shed. I informed her the deal was off as he was gardening on the other property and wondered when he had finished cutting and stuff down where he was going to get rid of it and how I was not amenable to him dragging branches through my garden.

She obviously went and told him and he flew down stairs and started screaming at me in the street. He said he was not going to be made to feel like a trespasser on a garden he had gardened for 30 years. It was a shared garden and he didn't like my attitude. (I thought I was being as pleasant as I could to diffuse any tension).
I pointed out that it really was nothing to do with me and that I had Land Registry stating that it was my private garden. His reply was that he couldn't careless about Land Registry and he said he was going to get me out as I had breached the terms of my lease.
It has left me shaken and really have come to the conclusion for the time being I cannot move into this property. I just don't feel safe.
I called the freeholder to make a formal complaint about his behaviour and to inform him of my post situation. He was not there but back today.

I should point out that when he says shared garden he means his garden. In the front "shared garden" apart from the path leading up to the front door and my path way to my gate you cannot put a foot down without treading on one of his pots.

The garden when I viewed the property and up to me landscaping it was overgrown and weedy although someone had cut the lawn once that year you really couldn't tell where lawn ended and flower beds began. It was terrifically high maintenance. He only ever talks about it being a shared garden, but it is only him complaining, no one else used the garden. He also only talks of working in the garden, never about how he enjoyed the garden or sat out in the garden, not that you could because it was made into mainly flowerbeds and the lawned area you could not have fitted a small table and a chair on.

Sorry for the long post, will see what today brings.

Takeaway_Addict

Feel for you but I have to agree with the poster who said act like a stuck record.

No point getting into a debate with this person

rpc

Next time he flies off the handle, call the police.

Be the broken record - he has no relationship with you contractual or otherwise. He is accountable to his landlord and you are accountable to the freeholder. If you are acting with your long lease, there is nothing he can do (ignore the bluster about the "causing distress" clause).

olly300

JANETJ wrote: »

I called the freeholder to make a formal complaint about his behaviour and to inform him of my post situation. He was not there but back today.

The freeholder cannot do anything unless you do report the tenant to the correct authorities and give the freeholder the details i.e. crime reference number, otherwise they can be charged with harassment of the tenant.

With protected tenants because landlords are known to want them out courts come down very hard on the landlords. So you need to report him to the police over both issues now. It doesn't matter that it happened earlier in the week.

While ensuring your mail isn't delivered directly to isn't a crime, tampering with it to your detriment is. In addition threatening you in that way is harassment.

Keep reporting his activities to the police if they amount to harassment.

If he actually threatens you in person in future as your female call 999 immediately. Explain to the police that his dispute is with the landlord not you and your solicitor has told you he has no legal right to have access to your garden.

ValHaller

G_M wrote: »

The guy's tenancy gives him access to the garden.

However, if the garden does not belong to his landlord (as here - the garden belongs to you!) then he may have a case for breachof the tenancy agreement against the landlord.

That does not affect you! It is your land.

My next door neighbour could grant a tenancy to a tenant, ad state that the tenancy includes use my garden.

This would of course be rubbish - he has no right to give access to my garden to his tenant. But his tenant could sue him. (not me).

The same applies here even if the guy has been previously using the garden for 30 years.

Tell him if he is nice to you, you might consider a temporary right of access to his shed, which you reserve the right to withdraw at any time. But that if he is not nice to you, you will prohibitall access.

Although I see the logic of this, I am struggling with it. Because it is at variance with our advice in other circumstances.

Suppose a Landlord sells a property which is let in its entirety to one tenant. We would advise both tenant and buyer that the tenancy continues under its original terms.

Now applying this principle to OP's situation. Suppose the tenant does have a tenancy which includes the garden? Surely that makes OP partial Landlord over the garden which now has a protected tenant?

G_M

What olly said.

You need to get this formally reported.

Letter to freeholder complaining about breach of leasehold agreement by leaseholder of the other flat (ie the leaseholder upstairs [who also happens tobe the freeholder!] is allowing HIS tenant to breach the leases)

Complaint to police. Get it formally recorded.

G_M

ValHaller wrote: »

Although I see the logic of this, I am struggling with it. Because it is at variance with our advice in other circumstances.

Suppose a Landlord sells a property which is let in its entirety to one tenant. We would advise both tenant and buyer that the tenancy continues under its original terms.

Now applying this principle to OP's situation. Suppose the tenant does have a tenancy which includes the garden? Surely that makes OP partial Landlord over the garden which now has a protected tenant?

Hmm.. Good thought.

* OP would have a case against the vendor (who appears to be the freeholder (who is also upstairs leaseholder/landlord) since presumably he bought the flat, and garden, "with vacant possession". He was not informed that there was a tenancy on the garden.

* Is the tenancy inclusiveof the garden? Or has the tenant simply chosen tostart using it (albeit 30 years ago) and no one stopped him? When was the lease created that split the garden? Immediately beforeOP bought, or 30 years ago?

Foodforthought...

princeofpounds

Although I see the logic of this, I am struggling with it. Because it is at variance with our advice in other circumstances.

Suppose a Landlord sells a property which is let in its entirety to one tenant. We would advise both tenant and buyer that the tenancy continues under its original terms.

Now applying this principle to OP's situation. Suppose the tenant does have a tenancy which includes the garden? Surely that makes OP partial Landlord over the garden which now has a protected tenant?

Normally, you are let a property defined by an address, which in turn is defined by a title plan (and other deeds, easements and so on).

The implicit assumption most people are making is that it is highly unlikely that the landlord would have demised ('allocated') part of another property to the tenant. They would have let just the one property.

The tenant may have used part of that other property, but that does not make it part of the tenancy, and it apparently does not mean they gain an easement or adverse possession either, because as a tenant you cannot do so (to stop people, for example, gaining permanent easements over communal areas like entrance halls simply by virtue of using them as a tenant).

But these are assumptions, which is why the OP has to consult their lawyer to make sure everything was done correctly.

It is possible that the tenant may have a tenancy agreement that says 'Flat 1B and the Garden of Flat 1A', but that is not likely.

It is also possible that the landlord has carved off 'Garden of 1B' and stuck it onto the deeds of '1A' before selling it, but that is also unlikely. It is slightly less unlikely if the property was registered after the assured tenancy began.

G_M

As PofP says above.

But tht is why I asked about when the garden was sub-divided and when the leases were created.

It's possible that when the tenant moved in 30 years ago, the garden WAS part of the tenancy (eg perhaps at that time the garden was shared between all leases) but that more recently newleases were created in which ownershipof the garden,or part of the garden was allocated to the OP's flat.

olly300

Just to throw another spanner in the works everyone is presuming the tenant has a written tenancy contract.

He may not due to:
1. When the tenancy started, and,
2. The fact that tenancy agreements can be verbal.

This means it's up to the tenant and the tenant's landlord to each prove their position and absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

This means it's imperative that the OP keeps reporting the tenant to the police if he harasses her and then in turn reports this to the freeholder. (Make sure you keep copies of every written complaint, mention prior complaints in the letters and send some of the letters to the freeholder by recorded delivery.)

If this continues too long i.e. more than 6 months there would be grounds for legal action against the freeholder.