Garden in dispute

JANETJ

Hi I wonder if anyone can help me? At the end of last year I bought a ground floor flat at the back of the building.
The landlord owned the whole house which has 6 flats in. He put up for sale and sold 4 flats one being mine and one being the other ground floor flat, both over looked the back garden. The garden at this stage was one garden but on the deeds there was a line down the middle to the back fence dividing the garden onto two. (one being my flats and the other being the other ground floor flat.)
My flat has also marked that I have the side entrance so I have private access into my flat.
The flat was in a terrible mess and the garden was pretty overgrown.
During building work a guy came into the garden asking what we were doing and that he was a protected tenant who had lived in the house for 30 years and that we were destroying his garden.

I sympathised with him but had to inform him that I had actually bought the garden. (the landlord has informed me there is no mention of him having any rights in his tenancy agreement over the garden.) He was very worried about him being able to retrieve his stuff from" his " shed that lies in the other flats garden so we left it to the final day of renovation work to put up the last piece of fencing and made sure he had taken everything out of the shed.

I should point out at this stage that the flat has planning permission to extend out into the garden dating back to 2007. I would have thought that the planners would not have given planning permission to build onto" communal " gardens if that is what they were.
During the renovation works I put up the fence and decking and have gravelled around the edges. Ready for planters. The landlord came down to take a look and was very pleased how the renovations had gone.

I recieved a letter from this person yesterday saying how I had made an eyesore and a desert of what he now looks onto. (His flat is above mine and looks directly into the garden.)
He has informed me he suing the landlord for selling his garden and wants to know how I am going to put right the "damage" I have done to the garden. He is also going to be trying to get me out of the flat saying in my lease I must not cause disturbance and distress to other leaseholder and looking out on to the eyesore as he calls it is causing him damage and distress.
Have to say looking up at his flat fills me with damage and distress as it is like a old sunroom built on the top of my roof that is filled with dead and dying things, and when I say things I am not talking about plants.
This was meant to be a fresh start for me and now I feel I cannot
use my garden and feel under threat and I have not even moved in yet.
He also wants me to take down a fence panel so he can get to his
shed. He would have to cross the glazed uncurtained patio doors
And he could then do that at any time of day.

JANETJ

Should have said at the end of last post ..Help

Cannot put my finger on it but I really have got second thoughts about moving in. I really would be nervous about my children playing out in the garden if a stranger could walk through the garden at anytime.

rpc

You are only bound by your long lease. If that says you own the garden, then you can do what you wish within the limits of the long lease.

Does your long lease create any rights of way or easements across the garden? It is possible that the tenant has established right of way over the years, but if it is not formally recorded then it is for him to prove and it could cost him £££

The protected tenant may have had a tenancy including the garden, or he may not have done but used it as if he did. That dispute is between tenant and landlord and nothing to do with you. He may be genuinely upset that "his" garden has now been taken over. He may have done nothing wrong.

It sounds as though he does not have any explicit rights to the garden, but has used it as his over the years. Getting him to accept this is another matter, but that is the landlord's concern and not yours.

I would adopt the broken record technique "this area was sold to me, take any issues up with the landlord". I assume the freeholder of the long lease is the same as the landlord on his protected lease?

He is also going to be trying to get me out of the flat saying in my lease I must not cause disturbance and distress to other leaseholder and looking out on to the eyesore as he calls it is causing him damage and distress.

Like the distress he is causing you?

Given it was the freeholder that sold you the land and is happy with what you have done, it is hard to see the freeholder evicting and it is even harder to see a court agreeing.

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Sounds like a lot of bluff and buster to me

sirmosh

One thing I will say is that you can get planning permission even if you don't have a right to build on the land. Planning doesn't deal with whether or not someone has a right to that land.

dancingfairy

It might be worth having a chat with your solicitor. Just double check that you do in fact own that part of the garden. Sounds a bit weird to split a garden up and sell haf of it though, I would have thought that it would be owned by the freeholders and maintained as a communal space?
Anyway there is not much you can do. If he is upset then he will have to seek legal advice to see where he stands (and I would have thought his issue would be with the freeholder/his landlord) and not with you.
best of luck getting it sorted.
df

G_M

JANETJ wrote: »

I should point out at this stage that the flat has planning permission to extend out into the garden dating back to 2007. I would have thought that the planners would not have given planning permission to build onto" communal " gardens if that is what they were.
No.Planners do not look at ownership, only at whether the application complies with Planning law. PP is granted to a property, not an individual, so the Q ofownership is irrelevant

During the renovation works I put up the fence and decking and have gravelled around the edges. Ready for planters. The landlord came down to take a look and was very pleased how the renovations had gone.
What doyoumean by 'landlord'? Freeholder?
If the garden is yours it is nothing to do with him.

I recieved a letter from this person yesterday saying how I had made an eyesore and a desert of what he now looks onto.
Hemay be upset, but that islegally irrelevant

He has informed me he suing the landlord for selling his garden
Notyour business, or concern.
and wants to know how I am going to put right the "damage" I have done to the garden.
None of hisbusiness. Ignore (unless you wish to forge relationship with this neighbour)
He is also going to be trying to get me out of the flat saying in my lease I must not cause disturbance and distress to other leaseholder
a) he is not aleaseholder, he is a tenant!
b) he will never prove nuisance!
Ignore.
and looking out on to the eyesore as he calls it is causing him damage and distress.
Have to say looking up at his flat fills me with damage and distress as it is like a old sunroom built on the top of my roof that is filled with dead and dying things, and when I say things I am not talking about plants.
well you should have thought of that before deciding tobuy the lease!

This was meant to be a fresh start for me and now I feel I cannot
use my garden
Of course you can.Ignore the idiot!
and feel under threat and I have not even moved in yet.
He also wants me to take down a fence panel so he can get to his
shed.
If the fence is on your property, or the boundary, it is yours. Does he have a rightofaccess across your property? Is his shedon your property?
He would have to cross the glazed uncurtained patio doors
And he could then do that at any time of day.

* What does the Title Plan for your lease show? Does it clearly show which part of the garden is yours?
You can download it for £3 from the land registry
* Does your lease, or any other legal document, show a right of access by others (eg the neighbour) onto or across your property(garden)?
*

There is a wider message here for buyers:

Before buying, always knock on the doors of neighbours! Especially in flats!

I often recommend this, but get the impression very few people do it.

This thread demonstrates the importance of learning what your neighbours will be like before you buy!

JANETJ

I have pointed him in the direction of the landlord/freeholder.
Yes I do own the garden.
The garden is split between the two ground floor flats. The other flat is rented to a guy who is not bothered about the garden, to him it is just a crash pad as he works 3 jobs and is rarely in.

Thanks for putting my mind at ease. Although I am really uneasy about moving in.
The landlord has asked me if I will let this guy have right of way over my property to get to his shed. If this guy had not sent the letter to me I think I would have not had a problem providing he contacted me before hand but this letter has really upset me.
As for taking the landlord to court costing £££ I should point out he is being backed at the moment by a minor political party over the loss of his job because from what I can gather he went on every strike going when he should have been at work.

Strapped

Sorry to say, it does sound as though he has created a "right" to the garden if he has used it for 30 years. *ETA: apparently not in this case as the garden previously belonged to his landlord. TBH, my sympathies are with him, and with you for having been duped by the vendor.

If I were the upstairs tenant I'd probably carry on using the garden. You may have to take legal action to stop him. Which you may not win. *ETA: Actually, you should - see post below. You may have a case against the vendor.

Sorry to be bloody minded, but we just had a similar situation where the original developers of some properties on our lane decided to sell off half the lane, and the new owners decided to stop the rest of us using it. We carried on as normal, as had been happening for the previous 27 years and as per the original planning documents. Our solicitor said that it was for them to prove we couldn't use it. They have now given up.

cte1111

Have you talked to the person who has bought the other ground floor flat? Perhaps by presenting a united front, you might feel more comfortable in asserting your rights over the garden.

Difficult neighbours are a fact of life. All you can do really is ensure that the garden is yours, by checking with your solicitor and the Land Registry as other posters have suggested. Once that's sorted, then perhaps it would be an idea to pay for a solicitor's letter to the neighbour.

I would also be contacting the landlord, letting him know about the distress that his tenant's claims are causing you.

Strapped

Actually, I stand corrected in this case. Although a tenant can create an easement, it seems that they can not acquire one across other land owned by their landlord.

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-52

So the OP should stand their ground. I'd see a solicitor for peace of mind though.