Leaseholders share responsibility for upkeep: but no formal structure?

kln2013

Hi there,

I was hoping to get some advice:

I am looking at purchasing a flat (leasehold). It is a ground floor purpose built maisonette in a 100 yr old terrace, and responsibility for the structure / roof / exterior of the building falls to the two leaseholders (of the first floor flat and ground floor flat).

There is no set service charge, and as the house sale is being managed by executors, its not possible to get info about how getting necessary works done was formerly organised (the upstairs flat is buy-to-let, tenants dont have any idea on this).

In recent years, it looks as if nothing has been done - there are various works (chimney repairs, replacing guttering leaking against house, roof repairs, exterior ground level lowering - its above interior level & air bricks which seems to be causing damp to get in) which need doing fairly urgently.

The lease states that the freeholder has a responsibility to make sure the two leaseholders carry out their duties (ie keep the building in a good state of repair) - but as the place has been allowed to get into quite a state of disrepair (guttering is a disaster, needs doing NOW) this clearly isn't going on in practice.

I would be happy to take on a place needing these works if it was a whole house freehold or even if there was a management company structure set up, but I haven't had this leaseholder co-management/ no formal structure situation before and I'm concerned that if the other leaseholder doesn't want to get the works done, its going to be hard to resolve and a big delay.

Does anyone know what normally happens in this situation? IE - if I proposed works to the other leaseholder and they weren't willing to go ahead with it, what would happen if I felt the works were essential and had to be done (but did not want to pay 100% when building costs are supposed to be shared 50/50!)

Has anyone else been in this situation, and if so how did it work for you?

(I really, really like the property, which is why I didn't just walk away already)

Thanks for reading this!

KL

katejo

Be careful! I was in exactly this position when i bought my first flat. according to the lease, the first floor leaseholder was responsible for arranging repairs to the roof and upper part of the building and the ground floor one for the lower part. The cost of any repairs (for top or bottom) was however to be shared between the two. My mortgage lender made requirements for roof repairs. We got quotes and appointed a firm. However, after starting, they found that more work was needed than originally thought (due to extra damage found under slates)
The ground floor leaseholder said that her Dad was a builder and that the roof didn't need more than a few tiles fixing. She refused to pay up. I could have taken her to court over it but the hearing would be delayed until after Christmas. I wasn't allowed to have the work done and claim against her afterwards. The damage had to be assessed by independent surveyors. Meanwhile it was raining a lot in December and the rain would have damaged my flat not hers! My Dad ended up paying for my new roof.



Our freeholder was absolutely useless. He was either thick as the garden wall or a crook (but that is another story).

My place was in good condition apart from the roof repair needed. Where in the country are you? Your description sounds familiar. Mine was an ex Warner flat in E17. I'm not there any more.

Also how many years left on the lease? Have you checked that? Very important. The price asked could be artificially low if there are under 80 years left. Extending a lease can be very expensive.

G_M

If you are unable to reach agreement on repairs/maintenance with theother leaseholder, you will have to approach the freeholder.

The freeholder will then haveto make the other leaseholder comply. Or, if unwilling to do so, you will have to make the freeholder make the other leaseholder comply.

Worst case would be reluctance by one, or both, of these other parties, requiring court action which would be costly, slow and time-consuming.

However, in many cases like this it just takes the initiative of one party to get the other to agree.

Best advice? Make contact with the other leaseholder and sound them out.

katejo

G_M wrote: »

If you are unable to reach agreement on repairs/maintenance with theother leaseholder, you will have to approach the freeholder.

The freeholder will then haveto make the other leaseholder comply. Or, if unwilling to do so, you will have to make the freeholder make the other leaseholder comply.

Worst case would be reluctance by one, or both, of these other parties, requiring court action which would be costly, slow and time-consuming.

However, in many cases like this it just takes the initiative of one party to get the other to agree.

Best advice? Make contact with the other leaseholder and sound them out.

She has already said that the other flat is buy to let so it is harder to contact the leaseholder. Unknown to me, my freeholder was in the process of selling the freehold to someone else (without offering it to us as required). The new freeholder would NEVER have done his duty re. making the other leaseholder pay up. Throughout the time I was there, he refused point blank to even provide proof of the building insurance and swore at me for asking for it.

I sold that flat with 87 years remaining on the lease before it got to close to the 80 year cut off.

xylophone

Is there any chance of purchasing the freehold?

G_M

katejo wrote: »

She has already said that the other flat is buy to let so it may be harder to contact the leaseholder. .

It is still the sensible courseof action!

Speak to the tenants, they may well give name/address of their landlord(the leaseholder).

Or download the lease Title for £3 from the Land Registry. The address may be the flat,or may be the actual address.

When considering spending several £00,000, a few minutes affort is hardly a lot....

katejo

xylophone wrote: »

Is there any chance of purchasing the freehold?

Think it would not be allowed unti the buyer had lived there for at least 2 years

katejo

G_M wrote: »

It is still the sensible courseof action!

Speak to the tenants, they may well give name/address of their landlord(the leaseholder).

Or download the lease Title for £3 from the Land Registry. The address may be the flat,or may be the actual address.

When considering spending several £00,000, a few minutes affort is hardly a lot....

I am not disputing that . Based on what the OP has said so far , I would not proceed at all

G_M

katejo wrote: »

Think it would not be allowed unti the buyer had lived there for at least 2 years

Of course it is allowed.

If the freeholder wishes to sell.

katejo

G_M wrote: »

Of course it is allowed.

If the freeholder wishes to sell.

Yes I meant when the freeholder has not decided to sell.

kln2013

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply.

I am going to have to try and make contact with the other leaseholder before making any decisions for sure, as you say, sound them out.

However......katejo's story is interesting. Katejo - the property involved is indeed an E17 Warner Flat!! So infact very similar to your situation indeed. The lease on this one is from when they were still Warner Company freeholds handed down to the existing freeholder/leaseholder, so maybe the same you had?

Your experience is exactly the kind of thing I am concerned about - and the recourse available to resolve any dispute about what needs doing sounds lengthy.

I'm getting very cold feet!

Getting involved in buying the freehold - I would like to do this, but a little further down the line (got q. a bit to be getting on with on the place for starters) - also wouldn't I have to either do that in tandem with the other leaseholder (freeholder willing), or get the other leaseholder's permission to take on the freehold of the whole building if they didn't want to purchase part of it themselves at that time?



KL