Dream home has no building regs for loft conversion - please help!

Fizzymartini

housebuyer77 wrote: »

Hi martin, thanks for your views. I do feel nervous about the fire issue, but I am thinking that for £5k I could put in a sprinkler system in the open plan or something called 'automist':

http://www.plumis.co.uk/automist.html

This would give me peace of mind, even if I did not go for full regs compliance. But it seems this solution might allow you to maintain an open plan layout and achieve regs.....

If I cut my price by £10-20k to pay for such a system, and any other work required, I could then be left with a super house that does meet regs, or if not is at least safer than many domestic properties that have no water based safety system?

What do you think?

I have recently gone through the same issue, so hopefully I can help here. The Plumis Automist would indeed bring it in line with current building fire regs; however your problems would start before you even have the opportunity to install it. Your mortgage lender will simply not lend in the absence of building control certificates.

Here's what happened to me: my solicitor was required, by law, to inform the lender that there are no certificates, but that there is an indemnity policy proposed. The lender reverted to the valuer for their comment. The valuer responded to the lender that there were safety issues and, as such, could not advise the lender to proceed without retrospective building reg approval. End of.

Well, things turned out a little differently for me, as it later emerged that the vendor did have building control certs, just no planning permission... but that's another story.

Another consideration is the cost of maintaining the Automist - it will require continual servicing and testing, which is both inconvenient and costly. I had looked into the system when exploring open plan options, but eventually decided against it for this reason.

hazyjo

Pull out completely and lose my 'dream house'.

Hearing a lot of 'he said...'. If he's done it a lot, how do you know he doesn't say that about EVERY house? That it was for his family?

Why is he selling (sorry if missed that one)?

How do you know he's not some cowboy who is now in debt up to his eyeballs cos of all the botch-jobs and is now trying to flog his own house to make up the loss?

Is it much more expensive than other 3 beds (which is what is should be priced at)? Do not take into account the finish - that adds some, or makes it more sellable, but it does NOT mean he will recoup every penny when selling. There will be a ceiling height in the road!

The 'legal document' was a bit of a p*ss-take, he won't sign it, or his solicitor will make sure he can't be held liable. Speak with your solicitor, but I think I know what they'll advise...

As above, if the council are aware of the problem, he won't be able to get indemnity insurance.

You are not guaranteed to get council sign-off - they have their own rules regarding fire regulations. Plus, until they're involved, and until they carry out their own inspection, you won't know what needs doing. DO NOT take the vendor's word for it that it's only the fire regs that are the problem. And don't involve the council before or that counts out indemnity insurance (although, as I said, it sounds like they might know already which means you wouldn't get it anyway).

Jx

AlexMac

I think you're in love with this forever lifetime house so if you can afford to buy it then fix it, go for it....

But I'd always have a slight misgiving busting the local price-ceiling and buying the dearest house in a (short) street (preferring to buy, then improve, the cheapest).

Zoopla values are, in one sense, meaningless as they are simply extrapolated from past sale figures based on average local inflation/deflation, but I note that it estimates your dream as being worth well less than £400k. Even the house next door only achieved £495k when it last sold in Jun 2006, just one year before the height of the UK property boom in summer 2007...
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/home-values/harefield/plough-lane/?st=EORST
Since when, prices fell, crawled back up, and are still flatlining...

So its your call. Good luck

DannyboyMidlands

Pull out completely and lose my 'dream house'.

Well it looks like a house allright.

Looking at the floor plan I'd certainly want to see some structural justification for the stability of the left side flank wall and the rear wall. Doesn't seem much guts left to me

AlexMac

Oh, and further to my post, above, and given your later remark " I agree that he sounds like a bit of a maverick..."...

perhaps its a less rational and rather jaundiced consideration, but round here, where I live (in Sarf London) the only self-employed entrepreneurs with big shiny black Off-road Jeeps are purveyors of more exotic services than building construction - whose practitioners tend to have rather more functional transport; another prejudice to consider?

[Deleted User]

Fizzymartini wrote: »

I have recently gone through the same issue, so hopefully I can help here. The Plumis Automist would indeed bring it in line with current building fire regs; however your problems would start before you even have the opportunity to install it. Your mortgage lender will simply not lend in the absence of building control certificates.

I don't know if this is always the case. In my case, I'm buying a 1 bedroom flat which the seller is calling a 2 bed. The second is a loft conversion which doesn't have building regs approval, so I'm still calling it a 1 bed. The surveyor noted that the loft didn't have building regs and simply said it should be used as a loft and not a bedroom. He also suggested that I get fire doors installed. The lender was still happy to lend, regarding it as a 1 bed flat with a loft.

However the two cases are obviously not the same and I don't know if any of the other issues in the OP's house would put the lender off.

lessonlearned

Pull out completely and lose my 'dream house'.

Housebuyer - I think you are allowing yourself to be seduced by the presentation.

Take away the furniture, soft furnishings etc and what have you got. Also you must never count blingy fixtures and fittings and chavvy toys such as TV's as part of the price. They are meaningless and add little or no monetary value.

You need to strip all this away and look at the shell. This shell does not conform to building regs. You may be able to make alterations to make the house conform but it will cost and all that lovely decor will be compromised.

Why bother.

Find yourself a good house, decorate and furnish it how you like.

It will save you a lot of money and probably a lot of heartache.

housebuyer77_2

[Deleted User] wrote:

I don't know if this is always the case. In my case, I'm buying a 1 bedroom flat which the seller is calling a 2 bed. The second is a loft conversion which doesn't have building regs approval, so I'm still calling it a 1 bed. The surveyor noted that the loft didn't have building regs and simply said it should be used as a loft and not a bedroom. He also suggested that I get fire doors installed. The lender was still happy to lend, regarding it as a 1 bed flat with a loft.

However the two cases are obviously not the same and I don't know if any of the other issues in the OP's house would put the lender off.

Interesting difference of opinion here... I've seen on other related threads where lender's surveys simply state "matters for conveyancer - you should check to see if the relevant consents have been obtained'. Then when they do and there are none, you cite the indemnity policy to the lender and they OK the mortgage. But I do not know if you must also declare to the lender of lack of certs for window installs, boiler, etc etc.

Maybe the vendor could get certs for those items retrospectively from his suppliers? I guess the biggie is the loft and a lot of interesting views on here, particularly the comments about automist and the disadvantages. And if he did have inspectors round for a couple of visits, does that really mean indemnity is invalidated - if he didn't actually tell them that he was going to break regs but didnt invite them back for the final inspection?

hazyjo

Pull out completely and lose my 'dream house'.

Any 'builder' who doesn't bother getting the necessary approvals, consents, building/planning regs, etc etc is not one to be trusted in my book.

It's not like they can plead ignorance. If any builder is gonna spend £25k on a loft conversion, do you really think they'll skip the required regs?

If someone applies for 'certs' or anything else that implies approval, it means they can't get indemnity insurance if the answer is no.

Indemnity insurance does not say that everything is fine. It does not make the conversion safe. It does not give any guarantees. Basically, it's worth diddly squat. Yes, it might mean you get a mortgage, but it does not mean you have a four bed house. It's a three bed until the conversion is approved.

Jx

shortchanged_2

Pull out completely and lose my 'dream house'.

Seriously, a builder who must have done most of the work himself or at least should have excellent contacts in the business has spent over £200K refurbishing the place!

Are all the taps solid gold or something?