Business phone switched to personal contract

kilby_007

Cycrow wrote: »

legally, it'll belong to who ever took out the contract in the first place, which i assume was the company ?

so transfering a contract wont technically transfer the ownership of the phone.

sounds like your boss isn't going to be very resonable about it, so the best you can hope for is to work out some kind of arrangement.
The best option is to transfer the contract back to them if they will agree to that.

Then you will be free to get your own one, but will lose your number.

Remember if you have to give the phone back, not only will you be paying extra for the phone, u will also be without a phone to use yourself

Thanks for your help. I'm considering the option of just not handing the phone back in. If they still own the phone then they can block the IMEI but at least I will have won the moral battle. I might burn some bridges which won't be great, but I can't let them walk all over me. They have already taken other liberties which I'm sure isn't legal anyway.

tyllwyd

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the company are wrong - they haven't cancelled the original contract, they have just assigned it to you so you have taken it over. So you have taken over their obligation to pay under the contract, but surely if you have taken over their obligations, you have also taken over the benefits of the contract as well (ie including the right to be given a free handset at the start of the contract, which is the one you have). Do you have access to any free legal advice, maybe with your home insurance or something? It might be worth asking the question.

Silk

tyllwyd wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the company are wrong - they haven't cancelled the original contract, they have just assigned it to you so you have taken it over. So you have taken over their obligation to pay under the contract, but surely if you have taken over their obligations, you have also taken over the benefits of the contract as well (ie including the right to be given a free handset at the start of the contract, which is the one you have). Do you have access to any free legal advice, maybe with your home insurance or something? It might be worth asking the question.

Strictly speaking as has been explained earlier in the thread, the phone and the contract are not related. The contract and liability is only for the service contract and the phone was given FOC to the company as incentive for agreeing to the contract.

The phone belongs to the company and probably down as an asset on the books for insurance and tax purposes etc etc.

The company can do whatever they wish with the phone, either sell it, give it away or keep it even if they no longer have liability for the contract.

tyllwyd

Silk wrote: »

Strictly speaking as has been explained earlier in the thread, the phone and the contract are not related. The contract and liability is only for the service contract and the phone was given FOC to the company as incentive for agreeing to the contract.

The phone belongs to the company and probably down as an asset on the books for insurance and tax purposes etc etc.

The company can do whatever they wish with the phone, either sell it, give it away or keep it even if they no longer have liability for the contract.

I'm still not convinced - the phone was bundled in with the contract. The contract is now the OP's, therefore I don't see why you can't argue that the phone is now the OP's as part of that contract. How the company treats it as part of their accounting records is not her problem (and isn't a problem anyway, they can just write it off). They had the benefit of it for the first 15 months of the contract and now the OP has the benefit of it for the final 3 months.

I don't think you can argue that the phone is completely separate from the contract - if a company offered two plans, same minutes/data/texts etc and same price and duration etc, but with either an iphone5 or a Galaxy Ace or no phone at all, you would chose the one with the phone you wanted. If you signed up for a contract which included one phone, they can't supply you with a completely different one (or one that doesn't work). OK if the phone breaks later they try to wriggle out of it, but that phone was supplied as part of the contract.

And even if ultimately I'm wrong, I think that there is at least an arguable case. So if the OP doesn't return the phone, the company would have to decide whether it was worth taking the OP to the small claims court over a second-hand phone, when a sympathetic judge might possibly rule in the OPs favour.

[Having said all that, I am assuming that the phone was supplied as part of the contract and not bought separately by the company? But at £42 per month you would have to hope it wasn't a sim only deal!]

Silk

tyllwyd wrote: »

And even if ultimately I'm wrong, I think that there is at least an arguable case. So if the OP doesn't return the phone, the company would have to decide whether it was worth taking the OP to the small claims court over a second-hand phone, when a sympathetic judge might possibly rule in the OPs favour.

[Having said all that, I am assuming that the phone was supplied as part of the contract and not bought separately by the company? But at £42 per month you would have to hope it wasn't a sim only deal!]

The phone when included in a contract deal is never invoiced with a cost hence they give it free on paper.

It wouldn't be a small claims court because as the phone belongs to the company and the employee went off into the sunset against the wishes of the company then it would be theft if they wished to report it.

I agree it seems small minded of the company to keep it but the fact remains it's the company who decides not the network

kilby_007

Thanks again guys for the input. The company also said that I wasn't allowed my training certificates which I need for my next job. What they don't know is that I've kept most of the originals anyway and they have copies. And the originals which I didn't have I have managed to get hold of anyway from the training company. One of the girls in admin said that the boss was going to use them as a bargaining chip, so this Friday when I leave if I asked for my certs then they would ask for the phone in exchange. All I need to do now is avoid them!

tyllwyd

Silk wrote: »

... It wouldn't be a small claims court because as the phone belongs to the company and the employee went off into the sunset against the wishes of the company then it would be theft if they wished to report it. ...

Hmm - if I accept that the phone is separate from the contract and the potential offence is theft, I wonder if the OP could argue that by buying the company out of the contract, they have paid in good faith believing that the ownership of the phone would transfer (which in fact is what happened).

Silk

tyllwyd wrote: »

Hmm - if I accept that the phone is separate from the contract and the potential offence is theft, I wonder if the OP could argue that by buying the company out of the contract, they have paid in good faith believing that the ownership of the phone would transfer (which in fact is what happened).

It would be an argument for mitigation if it wasn't for the fact the company have already intimated they want the phone back before the OP left his job.

It would also be the case if it was mentioned in the contract when the transfer took place but it won't be as it's only for the airtime and phone number transfer etc.

gjchester

There could be other issues here. For us work pays for a phone up front (not full price but not as cheap as a personal contract) and then we pay line rental but get no minutes but minutes are cheaper than say going over a personal allowance, and calls to internal company mobiles are the same as normal land lines. People can also upgrade at any time (if you can justify it to your boss..) by paying a fee which is not the same as a typical customer contract, (think a few hundred rather than the usual multiplier of line rental)

It's not as simple as a personal contract in that the phone may not be bundled in the monthly cost. The contract in place will depends on what the business negotiated. If the phone was bought (for any amount) then it may be considered an asset with a book value (and probably not much at that but accountants may see it differently), that complicates matters. It could be considered the book cost of the handset is part of your pay out.

Personally I'd suggest cancelling the move to you and giving it back, seems a lot less hassle.

gjchester

kilby_007 wrote: »

They say they want to give it to the new guy but is he really going to want a battered up old iPhone? They're going to have to take out a new contract for him anyway!

Maybe but the contract should be due an upgrade in 3 months, they may tell him that and he's happy with it.
It could be the number is what's important as the customers know it.

kilby_007 wrote: »

Thanks for your help. I'm considering the option of just not handing the phone back in.

It could be seen as theft, is it really worth it. Potentially you could be sued for the replacement cost (ie a new iPhone), and the costs to enforce it.
If you feel they have not paid you out correctly you could sue, but holding on to the companies property could not be seen as someone wishing to negotiate..