Is it just me, or is indicating going out of fashion?

alastairq

I really need to improve my observational skills, do the IAM do an x-ray vision course?

I believe so, but it wears off after a while............

Strider590

SCO wrote: »

If no indication is given other road users can only assume that no checks were made, as you will have seen when driving a lot of people are in there own world.

Well "assumption is the mother of all f**kups".

These same people that make assumptions, probably always indicate.....

Here's another example:

Approaching two LH junctions in close proximity, intending to take the 2nd.

Junction 1 leads to a street that takes you back to where you were 30 seconds ago, there is a car waiting to turn right out of here and a car coming the opposite way turning into junction 1.

Now you could assume that the drivers know you won't take that turn because why would you go back to where you started? You could put the indicator on to turn left, but what if they're both idiots?

There's a car close behind you, indicating at the last second would probably anger them.

What do you do?

Here's what I do.....

A way before the junction I indicate left and touch the brake, then at the normal indicating distance I turn off the indicator, I ease off the throttle, I watch the other drivers at the junction like a hawk as I approach (if they shift eye contact or move their car forward even the tiniest amount I'll tap the horn), I then indicate for a second time before braking down to turning speed.

The car behind probably thinks im lost, but at least they know im going to manoeuvre soon, the cars at the junction also don't know what im doing, so they don't move. They may find it slightly annoying, but I kept them from doing something stupid.

If it'd been 5 oclock in the morning and there were no cars and no people near that junction, then I probably wouldn't indicate at all.....

Short of everyone learning morse code and flashing out messages from the front of the vehicle, a simple flashing light is NOT enough to convey your intentions in all circumstances. You need to think and do the right thing for the situation, sometimes (as above) an indication could be taken the wrong way and cause a serious accident. You have to think about what the other driver might think it means, don't assume one way or another, because some people really are just stupid.

zagfles

Strider590 wrote: »

Well "assumption is the mother of all f**kups".

These same people that make assumptions, probably always indicate.....

Here's another example:

Approaching two LH junctions in close proximity, intending to take the 2nd.

Junction 1 leads to a street that takes you back to where you were 30 seconds ago, there is a car waiting to turn right out of here and a car coming the opposite way turning into junction 1.

Now you could assume that the drivers know you won't take that turn because why would you go back to where you started? You could put the indicator on to turn left, but what if they're both idiots?

There's a car close behind you, indicating at the last second would probably anger them.

What do you do?

Here's what I do.....

A way before the junction I indicate left and touch the brake, then at the normal indicating distance I turn off the indicator, I ease off the throttle, I watch the other drivers at the junction like a hawk as I approach (if they shift eye contact or move their car forward even the tiniest amount I'll tap the horn), I then indicate for a second time before braking down to turning speed.

The car behind probably thinks im lost, but at least they know im going to manoeuvre soon, the cars at the junction also don't know what im doing, so they don't move. They may find it slightly annoying, but I kept them from doing something stupid.

If it'd been 5 oclock in the morning and there were no cars and no people near that junction, then I probably wouldn't indicate at all.....

Short of everyone learning morse code and flashing out messages from the front of the vehicle, a simple flashing light is NOT enough to convey your intentions in all circumstances. You need to think and do the right thing for the situation, sometimes (as above) an indication could be taken the wrong way and cause a serious accident. You have to think about what the other driver might think it means, don't assume one way or another, because some people really are just stupid.

Yes, there are situations when the meaning of an indicator can be ambiguous. another one is when pulling over just after a left turn.

But the recent discussion has been about situations where indicating is not ambiguous, just that "no-one needs to know". Until I get my x-ray vision sorted, I won't assume no-one will suddenly appear who needs to know

SCO

alastairq wrote: »

However, on a 3 lane M/way, for example, if intending to return to the centre lane...having passed clear of the vehicle you've overtaken.....who else needs to know you intend moving left into the centre lane?
Well..for me, if the left lane had vehicles in it, up ahead.....[especially]..and I suspected one of them might wish to move right, into the centre lane [but, as is usual with basic drivers, they don't indicate their intentions in good time, ie when they start to think about it..and ,yes, I mean you lorry drivers too].....then I will indicate..in good time, before moving left.....just to inform those up ahead, the centre lane will soon have another vehicle in it, closer to them!

A good example, especially on a three lane m-way, imagine two people who dont like to indicate, in lane 3 and the other in lane 1, the one in lane 3 having passed the car in lane 2 begins to move back in, no signal, the other car in lane 1 does his check just before the other driver begins his move, so he decides to move out as well, no signal, the inevitable will happen two cars heading for the same bit of road, could casue a pile up if bad enough.

My point is there will be people that do checks and dont signal and never have a problem, but there will be others that dont signal that do limited checks and cause near misses or accidents.

If everyone signalled then people around would know what their intention is.

On a personal note it pi**es me off when someone does not signal back in after overtaking, i know this has been covered earlier but it is annoying. or when at a junction they turn left with no indication or do it at the last minute, a last minute signal is as good as no signal.

SCO

Strider590 wrote: »

Well "assumption is the mother of all f**kups".

Thought someone would use that phrase.

alastairq

On a personal note it pi**es me off when someone does not signal back in after overtaking, i know this has been covered earlier but it is annoying. or when at a junction they turn left with no indication or do it at the last minute, a last minute signal is as good as no signal.

Unless such [lack of?] action on the other driver's part caused you to suffer unwanted delay, or a 'problem......what exactly is there to get upset about?

If you were /are unable, physically, to get to the right or left of the other driver, it really doesn't matter a jot which way they go...they are in front, end of.

The only real time a following vehicle can be mislead by a signal, or lack of, is when that following vehicle is intending to move alongside the vehicle in front [either to the left, or right]...for example, when on a roundabout, or at a junction?

If the width of carriageway is insufficient to tolerate two vehicles side-by-side, then the following vehicle must remain behind, regardless.

So it really doesn't matter [in the great scheme of things] if the vehicle in front actually goes to the left, right, or off to the moon?

If it really causes [unwarranted] grief, the following vehicle is too close.
[therefore deserves grief, some would say?]


I don't have that sort of problem any more....I leave at least 2 seconds [plus a deep breath] distance.....I like to see what's in front of what's in front.

And I find I inevitably make far better progress for doing so..especially in a small-engined, low-powered car....when I can see, plan, and whizz off into the sunset whilst more powerful stuff is having to floor-it, exceed the speed limit, and take all sorts of chances just to get ahead.
But then, I'm getting older, and have grown to dislike being up other peoples backsides, sniffing their exhausts.

[I truly believe those who tailgate are..in reality..very lonely people, who are truly desperate for a cuddle....? Why else would they persist in driving so close?]

SCO

alastairq wrote: »

Unless such [lack of?] action on the other driver's part caused you to suffer unwanted delay, or a 'problem......what exactly is there to get upset about?
]

Its a matter of courtesy i would signal back in to you so i expect the same driving manners, as i have said before you would not pass your test if you did not signal the whole test as you would get to many marks.

I truly believe those who tailgate are..in reality..very lonely people, who are truly desperate for a cuddle....? Why else would they persist in driving so close?
]

I can only assume you are driving to slow for the lane you are in, they want you to move.

alastairq

Its a matter of courtesy i would signal back in to you so i expect the same driving manners, as i have said before you would not pass your test if you did not signal the whole test as you would get to many marks.

Incorrect! [to a point]

The Examiner will identify a 'need'. Also, the examiner will give the candidate the benefit of the doubt.

I once 'rode back' with one of my students on test [CAt C]....under strict instructions from the Examiner to 'say nothing whatsoever'....

The student was instructed to turn right at a roundabout. [not examiners' words, they have a pre-set format of instruction].
The student approached in the left lane[!], gave no signal [to the right] whatsoever, drove all the way around the outside edge of the roundabout carriageway [which was wide enough to be in correct road position]....gave no signal for the exit, and made their exit. I'm sat 'in the back', thinking OHMIGAWD....the examiner looked at me, but shrugged his shoulders [imperceptibly]...we looked all about, but there was absolutely no-one, no vehicles, no pedestrians, approaching or in the vicinity of that roundabout..totally deserted!

So...no serious fault! [The student failed further on..meet & approach!!]...gave him a driving fault for'position!'

The reason why learner drivers are 'taught' to signal regardless is to eliminate the possibility of acquiring a serious fault through not identifying someone to signal to.....due to their inexperience, or general state of panic under 'test' conditions.

At no time have I advocated not signalling at all, endex.

But , equally there are times when I deem it un-necessary to give a signal [ie, who needs to know?]

On a CAt B driving test, the standard of driving skill achieved is deemed very basic.

On a CAt C test, the examiner expects a far higher standard from the candidate.

The criteria for indicating on any driving test is 'correctly', 'in good time', and 'when necessary.'

In theory, a CAt C test candidate could acquire driving faults ..for indicating! [especially if they show no concept of 'when necessary?'].....albeit IMHO most would be for a misleading signal.

I fail to see where indicating one is returning to the left carriageway after overtaking can be 'courteous?'

If the overtaking driver was complying with the Highway Code, then the point of return to the left will be entirely clear of the overtaken vehicle.

Therefore not exerting any sort of 'influence' over the overtaken driver whatsoever. Therefore a signal is nothing but a waste of energy. []or a display of pomposity?]

However..if overtaking, but wishing to insert oneself between two fairly closely- spaced vehicles, a left indication is essential.

alastairq

I can only assume you are driving to slow for the lane you are in, they want you to move.

How slow is 'too slow?'

What 'rights' do they have to demand I either speed up, or, park-and-get-out-of-their -way?

None whatsoever.

In my experience, simply 'allowing' a tailgater to pass, is counter-productive. IN my experience, once they lose the comfort of that 'driver-in-front' they're lost, and proceed to get in my way.

But then, being a naughty driver, I view tailgaters as the source of finance for my next new car!

Lum

alastairq wrote: »

But then, being a naughty driver, I view tailgaters as the source of finance for my next new car!

As someone who is still in constant pain from someone driving into the back of me 9 years ago. I don't recommend this method of getting a new car.