JSA Unfair sanction

Adereterial

nciaw36 wrote: »

Thanks for replies and help here. I had my 1st signing on 2 weeks ago came with cv which I went through with adviser. He was happy with the CV mentioned add a little more info in the 'About Me' I was on the understanding it was more advice than got to do that. I was under no instruction to bring another CV as the one he has seen is in the system. Also another CV which I did a month ago which is in the 'Universal Jobmatch' system (CV Maker). I have kept to my agreement with proof of job applications, interviews and dates/times. They is definitely an agenda here when it comes to benefits in the UK I have read and researched online that JSA advisers are told to hit a target of 5 sanctions a week. Which was stopped then reinstated few months ago.

My claim was not a rapid reclaim as haven't signed for years I did tick a CV box which is what they have on paper/file. I will appeal and put every detail of what happened. Only thing shame didn't record my meeting audio on phone which I would strongly advice if you can to have proof when appealing as it is my word against theirs.

Questions:

We're you given a letter confirming you had to change your CV?

Is the change to your CV included as part of your Jobseekers Agreement?

Have you formally been sanctioned or just told you will be referred to a Decision Maker?

Have you given your statement already?

You must NEVER record an interview in the Jobcentre without informing staff you are going to do so, and gain their permission. You will not, however, get permission except in exceptional circumstances. You cannot use surreptitiously recorded information in any appeal, especially if it ends up going via the Tribunal Service - they cannot and will not take it into account. If you're found to be recording surreptitiously you'll be asked to leave & warned against unacceptable behaviour - any further instances could see you banned entirely.

john539

missapril75 wrote: »

Yes it does.

However, in the very first post the OP states the reason given.

We can disagree with the fairness of it but that's really not the same as claiming something was unclear and unknown.

Regarding "I wasn't even told this was the case from my last signing on..." what was there to tell?
At that stage there was no decision. If the job seeker shows conditions met for that period, the fact of signing will be input. There aren't any alarm bells or flashing lights to indicate the possibility of a forthcoming sanction.

I don't understand what you are talking about.

How can the OP do something they didn't know about if it wasn't clear & they weren't told.

This is ridiculous, sanctioning people for things they didn't know about.

john539

Organisations are calling for an inquiry into the sanction scandal.

nciaw36

Questions:

We're you given a letter confirming you had to change your CV?

No. Nor given verbal instruction to change/alter CV.

Is the change to your CV included as part of your Jobseekers Agreement?

No. Just handing a CV which I did at the beginning. The altered CV is superficial if you were able to see the original it would be fine. The advice given was a choice not a order.

Have you formally been sanctioned or just told you will be referred to a Decision Maker?

Yes been sanctioned for 4 weeks from the minute I signed on and told I won't be paid.

Have you given your statement already?

GL24 form sent through post from Jobcentre. Should receive Mon/Tues.

You must NEVER record an interview in the Jobcentre without informing staff you are going to do so, and gain their permission. You will not, however, get permission except in exceptional circumstances. You cannot use surreptitiously recorded information in any appeal, especially if it ends up going via the Tribunal Service - they cannot and will not take it into account. If you're found to be recording surreptitiously you'll be asked to leave & warned against unacceptable behaviour - any further instances could see you banned entirely.

Noted above. Shame because the claimant is left very exposed by the advisers have to trust they are honest and not over pressured for unlawful sanctions.

[Deleted User]

nciaw36 wrote: »

Another point I can ask for a hardship payment which is roughly half of JSA which has to be paid back through JSA/Employment. But again takes time and a personal meeting with a decision maker.

I get your point, have been here myself, thought I was mis-understanding but mary wept who told you this?

You use to only need to fill in a green coloured form entitled 'Jobseekers Allowance Hardship Provision' which goes of to DM, if you go for/are awarded this option you shouldn't have to pay it back, just means when you win appeal they only give you the % owed from during the hardship time and JSA gets reinstated, I won a sanction appeal so don't give up even with my JC saying the DM had used a lot of law type jargon on their side so that made it right.. it was funny when a new starter to work has no rights under first 2 yrs of work anyway thats another subject, make sure you demand to see all notes to help you to appeal you first need the 'reconsideration form' (not GL24 form just yet) plus go to your local council re HB - they will help x

All forms for appeal you get from the JC and if you can make enough cumotion prepaid envelopes to, to return forms if you can't afford to get there - it can take time, be frustrating but stick at it

missapril75

john539 wrote: »

I don't understand what you are talking about.

How can the OP do something they didn't know about if it wasn't clear & they weren't told.

Do what? The OP commented that at normal signing he wasn't advised there was "an issue" and at the time there was not an issue. What's to tell? There was no decision made nor anything to suggest there was something being considered. Hence my no flashing lights or alarm bells comment. It would seem someone behind the scenes was looking at it but that doesn't mean someone else (the member of staff signing) has a crystal ball to know that.

This is ridiculous, sanctioning people for things they didn't know about.

It's also ridiculous for you to have a go at the members of staff for things they didn't know about as the 'thing' had not happened yet.

Certainly it is ridiculous as described by the OP.

If it was just a passing comment that the CV could be improved upon, then not improving it or improving it but not supplying an up to date copy might be unwise, but I doubt any reasonable person could conclude that was sanctionable.

It would be a different matter if there was some recorded instruction to do so and to provide the new version. In the absence of that it seems a winnable case.

That's no reason for your customary sneering condemnation of JSA staff for anything and everything.

john539

missapril75 wrote: »

Do what? The OP commented that at normal signing he wasn't advised there was "an issue" and at the time there was not an issue. What's to tell? There was no decision made nor anything to suggest there was something being considered. Hence my no flashing lights or alarm bells comment. It would seem someone behind the scenes was looking at it but that doesn't mean someone else has a crystal ball to know that.

It's also ridiculous for you to have a go at the members of staff for things they didn't know about as the 'thing' had not happened yet.

Certainly it is ridiculous as described by the OP.

If it was just a passing comment that the CV could be improved upon, then not improving it or improving it but not supplying an up to date copy might be unwise, but I doubt any reasonable person could conclude that was sanctionable.

So why has the OP been sanctioned ?

What are you rambling on about ???????????????????????????
the staff don't know this or that, they are the people that created the sanction.

You spend all time covering your backs with double-speak & blaming someone else !


It would seem that the OP has been stitched-up by a dodgy advisor who has been told to reach a target, improve their performance, that they are not doing as well as other advisors !!!!!

nciaw36

To clarify it was my regular JSA advisor who I have seen twice who sanctioned me. I received a standard letter at the time which was printed in my presence which said I was sanctioned for not 'taking appropriate steps in finding employment'. Which I find outstanding as I have been looking for work in the terms of my jobseeking agreement ,interviews,filling application forms etc.

I believe this is deliberate wouldn't be surprised if this has been repeated up and down the UK. All I know is the for next 4 weeks no income with unnecessary hassle asking for a hardship payment which no doubt won't be straight forward knowing way things have gone so far. The media with the government have been stigmatising benefit claimants. Everyone is only 1 step away from claiming benefits job security in this country is becoming non existent.

missapril75

john539 wrote: »

What are you rambling on about ???????????????????????????
the staff don't know this or that, they are the people that created the sanction.

It's quite simple.

Somebody - a decision maker - had not made a decision at the time the OP signed for a regular signing.

A different member of staff 'signed' the OP at a regular signing.

The member of staff 'signing' the OP at the regular signing was unaware of a decision - because it had not been made yet. And so, would have 'signed' the OP as normal.

You appear to believe that the staff are a single entity and the signing officer should have known about something that hadn't even been decided yet.

missapril75

nciaw36 wrote: »

To clarify it was my regular JSA advisor who I have seen twice who sanctioned me.

Unless there has been a very recent change, advisors cannot sanction.