Refusing to Pay Arrears

cakeforbrains

Hi there. Just wondering if anyone has any experience or advice...

My CSA has been reassessed at length (it's taken many months and had to go through the complaints department) and it's come about the the NRP owes over £4500 in arrears.

I spoke to the CSA yesterday and, although I haven't received it in the post yet, they say that a payment schedule has now been sent out requiring that the NRP pay £190 pm standard payment, plus £170 towards the arrears.

He told me that the arrears are wrong (although refuses to specify how). He's provided them with extensive past payslips which they based the calculations on.

They then asked us both how much he's paid in Direct Payments. I scoured past bank statements and came up with a figure that I believe to be accurate but is around £1000 less than he says he's paid. He's had time to provide proof to back up his claims but hasn't.

So anyway, he told me that he's not going to pay anything off the arrears until it's "sorted". Can he do that? Can I get them to place a DEO ?(currently it's a standing order because he refuses to set up a DD)

Advice welcome. Thank you.

kevin137

They will do what they do, there is no hard fast rule that says they will do something, however, they will start threatening to do things, don't hold your breath, it is easy to jack your job in get a reassessment pay nothing and sit and claim benefits in the UK and if they go down the enforcement route the end could be just that...

Not sure how they go about the exact workings, but they can take unto 40% of his income and be within the law, however, he can argue that they are forcing an unreasonable timescale on him, there normal is that it has to be paid within 2 years, but that is not reasonable and not law, so he may get away with that one...

DD is there preferred method, but again, not law, and if it is being paid then not sure how they force it... By going down the DEO route, he may well have grounds for them harassing him, again, not sure how they currently impose if he IS actually paying, if he stops paying all arrears then different ball game all together...

The problem as i see it, is if he can PROVE he paid by bank statement £1000 more than you say, then you may be seen as playing games, but again, proof is one thing and it is hard to prove...

But ANY difference in figures throws into doubt the debt owed, and until that is settled then you may have to wait for a concrete answer...

cakeforbrains

Thanks.

The complaints department had the case for a number of months and during that time the arrears figure was, as far as they were concerned, decided. He's had plenty of time to dispute it or come up with proof.

I'm certainly not playing games about the direct payments. I gave them an itemised breakdown of all the maintenance that had gone through my bank account since 2007. He's told them there was cash, too, but I don't remember that at all.

I think with the current rate of repayment requested they've actually given him about three years to pay back the debt. I spoke with my case manager about it a few weeks ago and we both agreed that two years would be asking too much.

kevin137

Well someone has not worked there figures out then...

If they have said £4500 for arrears, and given a repayment figure of £170 a month...

The actual time to repay that is 26.35 months, so only just over 2 years... Which fits in very nicely with there NORMAL response for wanting it repaid...!!!

And can you honestly say that he has never given you CASH...??? I'm not calling you a lier, but been there done that, got the t-shirt, had the arguments and proved that it was given by way of CCTV with audio...

So i know how it can be twisted and i was called a liar and that i was manipulating the system and that she had no reason to tell a lie, and all the rest from the CSA, yet put a video with audio in front of them that clearly has the EX saying yes that is the CSA payment in full for the month, and then saying she never received anything and i knwo what it is like... And yet in the future, guess what, i still had to prove even though i had already proved my case before...

I'm just saying, that it is very easy to say no i have not had cash... Sod him, it don't matter...

If i had my way, i would of pursued a obtaining money by deception case, but guess what, the police called it civil, and the CSA would not do anything about it either... And as i didn't have to pay it twice it doesn't matter, but then the Arrears the CSA come up with now IS a huge problem...

The long and short of it is, you will get nowhere by making things worse, you are lucky you are getting money, if you lie and he gets the !!!! about it, then be prepared to get nothing, there are many that will just say, you know what, no point in me working just to pay her/again...

Don't push too hard...!!!

krashovrload

cakeforbrains wrote: »

He's told them there was cash, too, but I don't remember that at all.

++

Wouldn't there need to be some sort of papertrail to back that up? His bank account would be need to show payments marked as maintenance and your account would need to reflect payments..?

At the very least, a receipt book outlining what was paid, when, what for, who to and with signatures..??

Otherwise anyone could say anything..???

++

cakeforbrains

krashovrload wrote: »

++

Wouldn't there need to be some sort of papertrail to back that up? His bank account would be need to show payments marked as maintenance and your account would need to reflect payments..?

At the very least, a receipt book outlining what was paid, when, what for, who to and with signatures..??

Otherwise anyone could say anything..???

++

Well, he's always paid with either crossed postal orders that I put in the bank, or with building society cheques. Neither method actually allows for his name to come up in my bank account, so what I did was look back at my bank archives, pull out all the ingoings that had no other obvious source, and attribute them to him.

He provided the CSA with his own list, which they sent to me to check. I did so and slightly amended mine (there was one payment that I'd overlooked). Actually, there was also a payment that he hadn't put on his list but I know he made so I kept that on mine.

Anyway, I don't like all this 'don't push too hard or he might quit his job' stuff from Kevin137 (and others). I appreciate the warning, but there is no way I am treading on eggshells for this man for any more of my life than I already have. Asking him to comply with what the government expects of him is, I think, completely fair, especially as it transpires that he has been underpaying for the last five years. If he quits his job purely to get out of his financial responsibility to his children then that's on his conscience; the amount of maintenance he pays has never been a large enough proportion of my income that that kind of threat has really worried me...and I don't think he would anyway.

I apologise, though - above I didn't give you precise figures. The arrears is closer to £4700. When I spoke to them on the phone they said it would be about three years to repay, but yeah, it looks like it's about two and a half. If he needs it spread more thinly, that's fair enough, as long as it doesn't take the mick.

Edit to say: can I just clarify that I am certainly not lying about anything. Thanks.

Sensemaya

cakeforbrains wrote: »

My CSA has been reassessed at length (it's taken many months and had to go through the complaints department) and it's come about the the NRP owes over £4500 in arrears.Have the CSA been messing up? If so how?

He told me that the arrears are wrong (although refuses to specify how). He's provided them with extensive past payslips which they based the calculations on.

They then asked us both how much he's paid in Direct Payments. I scoured past bank statements and came up with a figure that I believe to be accurate but is around £1000 less than he says he's paid. He's had time to provide proof to back up his claims but hasn't.He's obviously trying to get the arrears figures down by trying the oldest trick in the book...cash!

So anyway, he told me that he's not going to pay anything off the arrears until it's "sorted". Can he do that? Can I get them to place a DEO ?(currently it's a standing order because he refuses to set up a DD)Well if he doesn't pay they will slap a DEO on him. Indeed given his attitude I would insist they set up a DEO immediately.

cakeforbrains wrote: »

The complaints department had the case for a number of months and during that time the arrears figure was, as far as they were concerned, decided. He's had plenty of time to dispute it or come up with proof.

I'm certainly not playing games about the direct payments. I gave them an itemised breakdown of all the maintenance that had gone through my bank account since 2007. Good.He's told them there was cash, too, but I don't remember that at all. You wouldn't because he's lying.

I think with the current rate of repayment requested they've actually given him about three years to pay back the debt. I spoke with my case manager about it a few weeks ago and we both agreed that two years would be asking too much. See how reasonable you are being. He isn't.

cakeforbrains wrote: »

Anyway, I don't like all this 'don't push too hard or he might quit his job' stuff from Kevin137 (and others). Well it could happen. So be prepared. He might start job hopping. If this happens contact the CSA every month. I appreciate the warning, but there is no way I am treading on eggshells for this man for any more of my life than I already have.Totally agree with you. Asking him to comply with what the government expects of him is, I think, completely fair, especially as it transpires that he has been underpaying for the last five years.Why has he been underpaying? CSA fault? If he quits his job purely to get out of his financial responsibility to his children then that's on his conscience; the amount of maintenance he pays has never been a large enough proportion of my income that that kind of threat has really worried me...and I don't think he would anyway.

I apologise, though - above I didn't give you precise figures. The arrears is closer to £4700. When I spoke to them on the phone they said it would be about three years to repay, but yeah, it looks like it's about two and a half. If he needs it spread more thinly, that's fair enough, as long as it doesn't take the mick.

Edit to say: can I just clarify that I am certainly not lying about anything. Thanks.

I believe you. Tell us more about why the case is with the complaints dept.

Thanks.

shoe*diva79

cakeforbrains wrote: »

Well, he's always paid with either crossed postal orders that I put in the bank, or with building society cheques. Neither method actually allows for his name to come up in my bank account, so what I did was look back at my bank archives, pull out all the ingoings that had no other obvious source, and attribute them to him.

He provided the CSA with his own list, which they sent to me to check. I did so and slightly amended mine (there was one payment that I'd overlooked). Actually, there was also a payment that he hadn't put on his list but I know he made so I kept that on mine.

Anyway, I don't like all this 'don't push too hard or he might quit his job' stuff from Kevin137 (and others). I appreciate the warning, but there is no way I am treading on eggshells for this man for any more of my life than I already have. Asking him to comply with what the government expects of him is, I think, completely fair, especially as it transpires that he has been underpaying for the last five years. If he quits his job purely to get out of his financial responsibility to his children then that's on his conscience; the amount of maintenance he pays has never been a large enough proportion of my income that that kind of threat has really worried me...and I don't think he would anyway.

I apologise, though - above I didn't give you precise figures. The arrears is closer to £4700. When I spoke to them on the phone they said it would be about three years to repay, but yeah, it looks like it's about two and a half. If he needs it spread more thinly, that's fair enough, as long as it doesn't take the mick.

Edit to say: can I just clarify that I am certainly not lying about anything. Thanks.

Kevins answer is always the the NRP will jack job in and then you will get nothing. I am not sure if he realises (given he dosent live in UK) how difficult it is for an adult of workable age to be able to sit on benefits all day. Even single parents whose youngest child is at least 5 HAVE to be looking to work. Unless your literally dying you cant even claim disability benefits!

Anyway, back to your query, It sounds like you have been very reasonable in checking back payments that he has given you. Its now up to him to prove if he has paid more. If he refuses to pay any money to the CSA then they will place a DEO on his earnings.

Keep on their back and ask for regular updates to your case. Push, push, push! You are entitled to this money to help the financial strain of your children. If he has racked up arrears then at some point I assume he wasnt paying for a particular reason?

PreludeForTimeFeelers

It sounds like you're being more than reasonable.

What happens next depends on how reasonable he is - it sounds as though they've ran a new collection schedule (at the £190 pm arrears rate) - this means that if he doesn't make the next payment then the case will most likely ping off to the Debt Enforcement department, who will give him a chance to make payments, if he doesn't then he'll get a warning letter telling him that they will impose a DEO.

One warning though - the length of time to set up a DEO (plus the fact that legally an employer is allowed to send in a payment by the 19th of the month after the collection is taken) means there's always a risk you may have to go a couple of months without any payment received. After that, your payments should be more regular again.

If he's currently paying by standing order then he's on thin ice with the CSA when it comes to arrears payments, it's a non-preferred method of payment, and as such it is in his best interests to co-operate with them. Surely even he admits that he owes at least £3500 in arrears, so he knows that he should be making the extra payments - the only thing in dispute is whether those payments continue for 28 months or 23 months (or whatever it was).

Marisco

shoe*diva79 wrote: »

Kevins answer is always the the NRP will jack job in and then you will get nothing. I am not sure if he realises (given he dosent live in UK) how difficult it is for an adult of workable age to be able to sit on benefits all day. Even single parents whose youngest child is at least 5 HAVE to be looking to work. Unless your literally dying you cant even claim disability benefits!

Anyway, back to your query, It sounds like you have been very reasonable in checking back payments that he has given you. Its now up to him to prove if he has paid more. If he refuses to pay any money to the CSA then they will place a DEO on his earnings.

Keep on their back and ask for regular updates to your case. Push, push, push! You are entitled to this money to help the financial strain of your children. If he has racked up arrears then at some point I assume he wasnt paying for a particular reason?

He's not wrong to point it out though. It happened to my daughter, every time they caught up with her ex, he left his job and disappeared!! This went on for years and years. If he is paying regularly, I'd rather forget and not pursue the arrears, if there is a chance he'll jack his job in and do a runner!

Sensemaya

Marisco wrote: »

If he is paying regularly, I'd rather forget and not pursue the arrears, if there is a chance he'll jack his job in and do a runner!

I disagree with you here. He should pay the arrears off. They can only job hop so often.

But we are still waiting to hear why the case is with the complaints dept.