Refusing to Pay Arrears

cakeforbrains

Thanks everyone.

Ok, I must confess that I am not a newbie; I have changed my username, purely so that he's less likely to know that it's me. Consequently, some of you may have heard my story before.

So basically, the case went to a complaints department because after I called to tell them he had a new job it took them over a year to come back with any kind of calculation. At the time I actually thought that I was opening a new case, but it turns out that the case was opened in 2007 (when I was on income support briefly). It also turned out that they were given some info that they should have acted upon back then, but they left the file in a dusty drawer for five years instead. This is why they've now been able to backdate it so far.

In the meantime the NRP has been paying (erratically at first and then more regularly). He always told me that he had found out how much he was supposed to pay on the online calculator and, given that I never knew his wages, I didn't know if he was paying the right amount or not. I shut up and put up with that for years until eventually I decided to get a proper answer. All I expected was a figure going forward, but it turns out that they've done this backdating as well.

I don't know if it would have gone to the complaints department had I not involved my MP?

shoe*diva79

cakeforbrains wrote: »

Thanks everyone.

Ok, I must confess that I am not a newbie; I have changed my username, purely so that he's less likely to know that it's me. Consequently, some of you may have heard my story before.

So basically, the case went to a complaints department because after I called to tell them he had a new job it took them over a year to come back with any kind of calculation. At the time I actually thought that I was opening a new case, but it turns out that the case was opened in 2007 (when I was on income support briefly). It also turned out that they were given some info that they should have acted upon back then, but they left the file in a dusty drawer for five years instead. This is why they've now been able to backdate it so far.

In the meantime the NRP has been paying (erratically at first and then more regularly). He always told me that he had found out how much he was supposed to pay on the online calculator and, given that I never knew his wages, I didn't know if he was paying the right amount or not. I shut up and put up with that for years until eventually I decided to get a proper answer. All I expected was a figure going forward, but it turns out that they've done this backdating as well.

I don't know if it would have gone to the complaints department had I not involved my MP?

He should have been more honest about his actual earnings and paid you the correct figure. He has underpaid for 6 years so this underpayment seems perfectly reasonable.

If he hadn't tried to wriggle out of his full responsibility then he wouldn't be in this position now. As you were on IS, I assume part of the arrears will be due to the SOS and part to you (post April 2010) so the CSA will require his to pay this debt.

cakeforbrains

shoe*diva79 wrote: »

He should have been more honest about his actual earnings and paid you the correct figure. He has underpaid for 6 years so this underpayment seems perfectly reasonable.

If he hadn't tried to wriggle out of his full responsibility then he wouldn't be in this position now. As you were on IS, I assume part of the arrears will be due to the SOS and part to you (post April 2010) so the CSA will require his to pay this debt.

No, I was only on IS for a few months, and the calculations kick in after that, so it's all payable to me.

I do believe that he knew full well that he was underpaying and thought that he would go on getting away with it. He's been caught out big time and now he's spitting feathers. Part of me genuinely feels bad for him because I wouldn't like to have a debt that big suddenly land on me, but the way I see it is that I have been subsidising his shortfall all these years (and more recently my new husband has) so now we should be repaid.

In the next few days I'll find out what he's actually paid this month and be able to check it against the payment schedule. If he hasn't paid the right amount I'll give the CSA a call and try to push for a DEO because I don't think he's got any intention of paying it.

Cally_Smart

It looks like you are being very fair about it ! We have been/still are really, in similar situation (I'm an NRPP)but the PWC in our case is denying we have paid anything !We have tried to tell the CSA & show them our proof (Bank Statements etc)but they are only listening to the pwc. She had alienated the children & everything over this : (
Hope it all works out for you !

kevin137

Of course i am always on the NRP's side, isn;t that what other PWC are, on the side of the PWC...???

What a ridiculous comment...

I stand by what i said, if he gets the hump, then the only person losing out will be the child, and that is wrong, but the maths didn't add up, and we all know the CSA's stance on getting so called arrears paid, and we all know how the CSA will take the work of the PWC that no money was paid...

All i was saying was, if you don't push so hard, you may get a compliant NRP that can afford the arrears rather than an upset NRP who has nothing left to work for...!!!

It makes NO difference to me wether or not he pays, and to be honest it makes no difference to anyone else on here either, it does however make a difference to YOU...!!!

If they came up with this schedule, and you wrote a letter to the CSA and copied him in on it asking them to reduce the arrears payment until it was cleared down to a more reasonable amount, then he has a reason to pay, and clear the debt without having to play the system...!!!

You still get the money, he still pays his bills and keeps working, and everybody moves on with there life...

Life is only as difficult as you make it, and now you have him paying, why make thing potentially worse for yourself by insisting that it be done the hard way...

And in answer to knowing how easy it is to sit on benefits rather than work, basic maths works it out for you...

Earn £1000 take home, have rent of £500, CSA of £190, Arrears of £170 council tax of £100 and why would anyone work...??? £40 a month...??? Don;t you get more on benefits...??? I'm just saying, the CSA crucify you when it comes to arrears, and he may well of been an !!!!!! playing games, and deserves everything coming to him, but if he has nothing to gain by working, and can live the same way by doing nothing, then maybe he would...

I don't know his financial situation, but i do know, when push comes to shove, people are quite happy to say sod you, you can have £5 a week...!!!

kevin137

cakeforbrains wrote: »

So basically, the case went to a complaints department because after I called to tell them he had a new job it took them over a year to come back with any kind of calculation. At the time I actually thought that I was opening a new case, but it turns out that the case was opened in 2007 (when I was on income support briefly). It also turned out that they were given some info that they should have acted upon back then, but they left the file in a dusty drawer for five years instead. This is why they've now been able to backdate it so far.

In the meantime the NRP has been paying (erratically at first and then more regularly). He always told me that he had found out how much he was supposed to pay on the online calculator and, given that I never knew his wages, I didn't know if he was paying the right amount or not. I shut up and put up with that for years until eventually I decided to get a proper answer. All I expected was a figure going forward, but it turns out that they've done this backdating as well.

Can i ask a question...???

And no i am not having a dig, but how long where you on Benefits, it makes a difference in how they perceive the case, you already say that he was paying YOU direct...

Was this while you where on benefits...???

It may be that the case is more complicated than simply he owes the money and you will get it all, as any money paid while you originally had the case open would of been payable to the State, and as we all know the CSA are notorious with there mistakes... So i would assume that whatever figure they have come up with is wrong anyway, and is not necessarily payable to you anyway...

The assessment for what he pays now is probably correct, but i would be very dubious about the arrears and who is actually getting that...

Just a thought... Obviously the longer that was the situation the more he will owe them and not you, and if you received money while claiming, have they asked for it to be paid back, or is it just deducted from the debt...

I ask simply because it reeks of double standards on the part of the CSA if you did receive anything while on benefits, not that i am saying you did anything wrong... But funny how they go back that far, and he owes all the money and can now be forced to pay it all but you should of declared and it's ok...

PreludeForTimeFeelers

The OP has already said above it was only a few months, and that the period of the assessment was after that...

Cally_Smart

Also if you have accepted an amount that you were happy with at the time you have effectively made a 'contract' with the NRP. Some pwc are happy to have a reasonable sum and be able to have the chance to ask for things like uniforms school trips,having the child/children if you need to do something at short notice.It's when the CSA get involved with their legislation etc all gets nasty.Have a read on our case if you are interested via my back posts.We are still no nearer to getting it sorted out than over a year ago!! I had a very reasonable relationship with my ex he knew we both had our daughters interests at heart... many years later I'm now even a trustee of his will !!

cakeforbrains

PreludeForTimeFeelers wrote: »

The OP has already said above it was only a few months, and that the period of the assessment was after that...

Yeah, it was for a few months just after we broke up. After that I went to university. And during that first year or so he wasn't paying anything anyway. In fact, I would take bags of shopping with me when I dropped off the children because he told me they didn't have any food in the house.

Anyway, I appreciate your point Kevin137, but I don't feel that I am "pushing hard". If I was insisting that they collect the arrears over two year or that they take the maximum 40% of his earnings then, yes, I would be pushing hard but all I want is the money paid at a rate that doesn't take the mick. My complaints department case manager explained to me that they like to come up with a payment schedule that is sustainable because then they are less likely to run into problems, and I completely agree with that. At the same time, though, I don't think he should be allowed to pay £20pm or whatever because that's tantamount to forgetting about it (especially as it's interest free).

As I say, at the moment he's refusing to pay it at all. As somebody pointed out above surely he knows that he at least has several thousand to pay even if he thinks that he's made more direct payments, so this refusal to pay off anything from the arrears stinks a bit. I think he's assuming he can make it all go away somehow.

cakeforbrains

Cally_Smart wrote: »

Also if you have accepted an amount that you were happy with at the time you have effectively made a 'contract' with the NRP. Some pwc are happy to have a reasonable sum and be able to have the chance to ask for things like uniforms school trips,having the child/children if you need to do something at short notice.It's when the CSA get involved with their legislation etc all gets nasty.Have a read on our case if you are interested via my back posts.We are still no nearer to getting it sorted out than over a year ago!! I had a very reasonable relationship with my ex he knew we both had our daughters interests at heart... many years later I'm now even a trustee of his will !!

I'm really pleased that it's been amicable for you, Cally, but I'm not sure where your theory of 'making a contract' stands in law. I never had any way of know whether he was paying the requisite 20% because I've never known how much he earns (he's changed jobs a few times since we split). He continually told me that he knew that he was paying the right amount because he had done the sums. He held all the strings. So I didn't so much accept the money 'happily' as 'passively'.

Also, he's never bought school uniforms, school trips or anything like that. And I'd hate to 'have the chance to ask' personally, because that would put him in a position of power over me. I'm not saying that that's what's happening with you, it's just that wouldn't work for me.

I don't really see the act of going to the CSA as necessarily a prelude to things having to get nasty; I just see it as recruiting a third party, who has access to all the facts, to make a standardised assessment of how much money should change hands. I have never and will never ask him for a penny more than that.