Official MSE Economy 7 Guide discussion

Richie-from-the-Boro

I asked my landlord if I could rip them out entirely, but they wouldn't allow me to

How much deposit did you pay when you signed a contract and moved into the dwelling knowing it had E7 heating?

John_Pierpoint

glocal wrote: »

I just had my single rate meter replaced with a simple dual rate one. The new one has no teleswitch or anything smart -- it should just switch between rates at 00:30 and 07:30 according to its clock, set (roughly) to GMT. Following an earlier incident , I don't trust those meters or what the suppliers says, so I will have to monitor. Am I right in thinking that if its clock is indeed fixed to GMT, my only option is to vary my consumption pattern, so that eg I use the washing machine from 1:30am in the summer months?!

What is really puzzling me is the Horstmann Economy 7 timeswitch controling the water heater. The ticking dial shows summer and winter time, and according to the manufacturer the peak and off-peak times are set internally during installation. Again, I will have to monitor its behaviour to make sure these were set correctly. However, how does it know when it is summer time and winter time? There is no button for that. The meter doesn't know either. Does the meter have separate circuits, one for peak and one for off-peak, supplying the timeswitch, so basically the switch is syncronised with what the meter 'thinks' it should register as peak and off-peak, regardless of the actual time? Otherwise, how can the switch know?

It sounds just like the mechanical switch I had until PV panels on the roof finally killed it off. [From time to time the cheap zone would wander out of 00:30 - 07:30 GMT until a meter reader notice but unfortunately never as far as something useful like 16:00 - 23:00 ]

The new electronic meter mentioned above is spot on and does not give me the 15 - 20 minutes a day extra that the old meter did, as the new meter is controlled by a pulse - however it does not reset the new meter to allow for the difference between BST and GMT that makes washing and then drying a load of clothes, while wearing pyjamas more challenging in the winter

If you can find a picture on Google you probably display it on here by going to its wev site and right clicking the picture, and copying its address into you memory; then clicking the little yellow icon above that looks like the sun shining on two mountains and pasting the address of the photo in the pop up space offered.

Here is something that looks very like my old clock, it is so "last century".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA-DjkuZNwA

Buzby

I am unaware of any 'simple' meter having any ability to reference time. It would require a timeclock or radio TeleSwitch in order to instruct the meter to switch tariff registers.

Only a smart meter can do this all on its own - so, can you advise the Meter name and model number from the front?

John_Pierpoint

It looks much like this, only the blue button is on the left



I'm sure the bloke fitting it said the clock worked on a pulse coming down the wire.
It has remained spot on accurate for 18 months but perhaps that is just a quartz crystal or something similar inside?.
Did he say it was something to do with Radio 4 long wave or is my old brain getting befuddled?

justin1972uk

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

How much deposit did you pay when you signed a contract and moved into the dwelling knowing it had E7 heating?

I don't see what the amount of deposit I paid, has to do with anything... In any case, I'd never had experience of coping with Economy 7 heating, so this wasn't an issue when signing the contract. I hadn't realised it was so terrible.

And I had every right to approach my landlord, as regards my removing the storage heaters, as I'm not bound to a private rental contact; it's social housing - not via the local council, but a Housing Association.

As with any social housing, you can make holes in walls and remodel to some degree, so long as you have permission beforehand.

The storage heaters aren't part of the property's structure, although they are very firmly affixed to the walls. They're not as much of a permanent fixture as gas central heating radiators (with their plumbing) would be. Each has one wire going to a mains switch into the plaster of the walls. It wouldn't be a huge undertaking to seal off these wires and plaster over.

The storage heaters seem more like electrical appliances than an actual inherent heating system - albeit ugly useless permanently on-show electrical appliances...

I intend to buy this property in a few years' time (as is my right as a tenant of social housing), and when I do, I'll rip out all the storage heaters and wall-mount manually operated convector heaters.

glocal

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Here is something that looks very like my old clock, it is so "last century".

These are so 'last century' they have decorative value

Here are pictures of my new meter and Horstmann Economy 7 Quartz timeswitch:



I checked last night and the meter switches from peak to off-peak at 23:30 GMT (or 00:30 BST). In my area (NW), apparently E7 is in operation 00:30-7:30, so the meter works as it should in the summer, but as it's not a smart meter, it will switch at 23:30 in the winter. Not being the early morning type, this sounds good.

Then I waited to see when the timeswitch for the water heater would wake up. To my surprise it switched on 2:15 and remained on for 7 hours and 15 mins, until 9:30. As far as I can see, I cannot change the length without calling an electrician, but I can change the start time by setting its clock accordingly. I suppose the easy way to do this is to wait until 5-10 minutes after the meter switches to off-peak and turn the dial on the timeswitch until it switches on. Then the heater will stay on for 7 hours and 15 minutes (and I can't shorten that), ie between 00:40-7:55. That means it will be on for 25 mins after peak rate kicks in, but my assumption is that the thermostat will cut off earlier anyway and it's probably better to have a margin for error in the beginning. Also, because all that matters is that the timeswitch is in sync with the meter (which doesn't change between GMT and BST), I don't have to change anything every 6 months. Does this make sense?

Richie-from-the-Boro

That's an Economy 7 Quartz, a two rate, two stat, teleswitched controller. You can set the [one hour] BST on the the front ring for winter & summer. The orange and blue cams can be changed + or - 4 hours a total of 7 [off time is set to 1 hour before end of off-peak for GMT] hours with a small flathead screwdriver from the inside when isolated from the mains, but uunless someone has already had their sticky fingers in there is best left alone because they are usually pre-set at the point of production.

I'm no longer sure what this convoluted thread is about, if it is about the stated original title of "Official MSE Economy 7 Guide discussion" then this is an E7 Horstmann Economy 7 Quartz water controller answer. There is in my opinion nothing to be gained by messing with the internals or externals of a teleswitched controlled water heater control unit. You may or may not want to switch it completely off in summer, and on again in the winter, but that's as far as consumer intervention needs to go.

glocal

Thanks @Richie-from-the-Boro. I have no intention of interfering with the internals of the timeswitch but the point remains that as it is, it switches on at 2:15am and off at 9:30am. If that is a teleswitch, what does it tele-sync with? Because clearly it doesn't do what it is supposed to with significant cost implications. As far as I see, all I can do is convince the timeswitch it's 2:15am when in fact it is 00:30. Better ideas are welcome.

HappyMJ

glocal wrote: »

Thanks @Richie-from-the-Boro. I have no intention of interfering with the internals of the timeswitch but the point remains that as it is, it switches on at 2:15am and off at 9:30am. If that is a teleswitch, what does it tele-sync with? Because clearly it doesn't do what it is supposed to with significant cost implications. As far as I see, all I can do is convince the timeswitch it's 2:15am when in fact it is 00:30. Better ideas are welcome.

It's not a teleswitch...I'd set it to turn off at 6.15am. The immersion will heat enough water in 4 hours. If you were to use hot water before you go to work in the morning at the moment the immersion element will reheat the water at the full day rate which is something you want to avoid.

loose*moose

I have E7 and storage heaters. I have lived in my house for 12 years and as the years have gone by the storage heaters have come on earlier and earlier, at the moment they are 9.50pm BST and 8.50pm GMT. This suits me very well as I can get some use out of the heaters and cheap electricity in the evening!

I always assumed that all was well and I was still paying the cheap rate until I read the Moneysavingexpert email this evening which said make sure your timer is correct or you could be out of sync with the cheap 7 hours. I have looked online and can't find any satisfactory answer to this! I am pretty sure that the E7 in my house is not governed by a radio controlled switch, I think it is mechanical. I get a big clunk sound when the E7 comes on and the storage heater lights come on at the wall, as does the hot water. I can't turn them on any other time. I always assumed that this switch over then fed the meter the new (cheaper) rate which has nothing to do with the time set by the energy companies (12pm - 7am for example) as how would my meter know when the cheap rate was?!

If anyone can help with this I will be very grateful! I did ask the electric company years ago when I first noticed it, and they just said lucky me or words to that effect!! Thanks.