Official MSE Economy 7 Guide discussion

k66

We are coming to the end of our fixed tariff and looking for another longer fixed term tariff.
We are all electric - with economy 7
We have:
3 storage heaters
2kw Immersion heater
Washing machine, dish washer and tumble dryer all have timers

Last December we had a 4kw Solar PV system fitted and now use solar energy to run our appliances, heat water etc whilst the sun shines.

Prior to solar PV our annual energy consumption was approx 10,500 kwh but our life style has changed as we are retired now.

We are considering Npower's Price Protector March 2017.

Is this a good choice?

[Deleted User]

Hi all

I think I'm reaching ends of my sanity trying to workout what type of heating I should install in my house.
The house is 6 years old all electric first floor flat above garages. When we bought it we were automatically sign to economy 7 but for some reason house builder decided to put ordinary electric panel heaters which cost fortune to run and in my opinion are too small anyway as the house is always cold during winter despite electricity usage being tripled.
I looked at the Fischer heaters but they're about £3000 just for the living room and kitchen and I did look at the simplex quantum but they're £2500+ fitting and they have thermostat built in which I don't think are accurate.
We do use immersion water heater and dishwasher every night so I don't think changing to a standard tariff would solve my problem but after reading this thread and others here I feel more confused then before reding them. If anyone could offer some advice or been in a similar situation I would be grateful for any help.

Cardew

[quote=[Deleted User];63384916]Hi all

I think I'm reaching ends of my sanity trying to workout what type of heating I should install in my house.
The house is 6 years old all electric first floor flat above garages. When we bought it we were automatically sign to economy 7 but for some reason house builder decided to put ordinary electric panel heaters which cost fortune to run and in my opinion are too small anyway as the house is always cold during winter despite electricity usage being tripled.
I looked at the Fischer heaters but they're about £3000 just for the living room and kitchen and I did look at the simplex quantum but they're £2500+ fitting and they have thermostat built in which I don't think are accurate.
We do use immersion water heater and dishwasher every night so I don't think changing to a standard tariff would solve my problem but after reading this thread and others here I feel more confused then before reding them. If anyone could offer some advice or been in a similar situation I would be grateful for any help.[/QUOTE]

The reason the builder put in ordinary panel heaters is that it is the cheapest option for him.

Unless you install storage heating, and that might depend on how the builder wired the flat, your panel heaters are as good as anything else; except you need more of them or they are supplemented in some way.

The £3000 Fischer heaters will give out no more heat, for the same running cost, than your present panel heaters or any £20 electrical heater.

You really should look a range of heaters - oil filled rads, fan heaters, panel heaters and decide which is acceptable from an aesthetic POV. For very little extra there are loads of thermostats, timers, remote control you can use to have a fully automatic system.

Above all do not be fooled into thinking that there is any electrical heater - regardless of cost - that gives out more heat for the same running cost, than a £20 heater from Argos.

lstar337

Cardew wrote: »

You really should look a range of heaters - oil filled rads, fan heaters, panel heaters and decide which is acceptable from an aesthetic POV. For very little extra there are loads of thermostats, timers, remote control you can use to have a fully automatic system.

But you should go onto a flat rate electricity tariff if you do this.

Cardew wrote: »

Above all do not be fooled into thinking that there is any electrical heater - regardless of cost - that gives out more heat for the same running cost, as a £20 heater from Argos.

Except a night storage heater, which will use cheaper night rate electric to store the heat for the next day.

If you have the money, night storage will save you on your bills. But if you don't have the money, your best bet is to switch to a flat rate tariff, and manage your heat with thermostats and timers, as Cardew has posted above.

Cardew

lstar337 wrote: »

But you should go onto a flat rate electricity tariff if you do this.

Except a night storage heater, which will use cheaper night rate electric to store the heat for the next day.

If you have the money, night storage will save you on your bills. But if you don't have the money, your best bet is to switch to a flat rate tariff, and manage your heat with thermostats and timers, as Cardew has posted above.

Agreed about flat rate tariff, I assumed it would be an obvious conclusion.

Also agree with storage heaters(on Economy 7!!!) as the best option, particularly as you can heat water at off-peak rates as well. However the cost wiring the flat might be an option.

Richie-from-the-Boro

[quote=[Deleted User];63384916]Hi all

I think I'm reaching ends of my sanity trying to workout what type of heating I should install in my house.
The house is 6 years old all electric first floor flat above garages. When we bought it we were automatically sign to economy 7 but for some reason house builder decided to put ordinary electric panel heaters which cost fortune to run and in my opinion are too small anyway as the house is always cold during winter despite electricity usage being tripled.
I looked at the Fischer heaters but they're about £3000 just for the living room and kitchen and I did look at the simplex quantum but they're £2500+ fitting and they have thermostat built in which I don't think are accurate.
We do use immersion water heater and dishwasher every night so I don't think changing to a standard tariff would solve my problem but after reading this thread and others here I feel more confused then before reding them. If anyone could offer some advice or been in a similar situation I would be grateful for any help.[/QUOTE]

first floor flat above garages

As per lstar337 & Cardew. Spend some of the money that would have been wasted on overpriced Fischer on insulation, particularly the floor of your dwelling. A single 500n DUO is cheaper than the Quantum, can store 18.2kWh of cheap night rate electricity, has an external sensor and has a built in front panel radiator. One - just one - will change your living area by maintaining the 'fabric' temp throughout the winter in the room you spend 95% of your time in.

[Deleted User]

Cardew wrote: »

Agreed about flat rate tariff, I assumed it would be an obvious conclusion.

Also agree with storage heaters(on Economy 7!!!) as the best option, particularly as you can heat water at off-peak rates as well. However the cost wiring the flat might be an option.

lstar337 wrote: »

But you should go onto a flat rate electricity tariff if you do this.

Except a night storage heater, which will use cheaper night rate electric to store the heat for the next day.

If you have the money, night storage will save you on your bills. But if you don't have the money, your best bet is to switch to a flat rate tariff, and manage your heat with thermostats and timers, as Cardew has posted above.

Cardew wrote: »

The reason the builder put in ordinary panel heaters is that it is the cheapest option for him.

Unless you install storage heating, and that might depend on how the builder wired the flat, your panel heaters are as good as anything else; except you need more of them or they are supplemented in some way.

The £3000 Fischer heaters will give out no more heat, for the same running cost, than your present panel heaters or any £20 electrical heater.

You really should look a range of heaters - oil filled rads, fan heaters, panel heaters and decide which is acceptable from an aesthetic POV. For very little extra there are loads of thermostats, timers, remote control you can use to have a fully automatic system.

Above all do not be fooled into thinking that there is any electrical heater - regardless of cost - that gives out more heat for the same running cost, than a £20 heater from Argos.

thanks guys! that helped me a lot. I knew there must be a way of upgrading without spending thousands £££'s. thank you again!

Bonefish_Blues

Can I ask a quick (and simple?) Q - We have E7 and use c40% on E7, with oil for heating (brand new very efficient boiler).

We have an E7 immersion on our hot water tank, but don't use it. Would it be cheaper to use it to heat a tank overnight, rather than using oil?

Thanks

Cardew

Bonefish_Blues wrote: »

Can I ask a quick (and simple?) Q - We have E7 and use c40% on E7, with oil for heating (brand new very efficient boiler).

We have an E7 immersion on our hot water tank, but don't use it. Would it be cheaper to use it to heat a tank overnight, rather than using oil?

Thanks

Very probably E7 with an immersion would be cheaper - how much depends on the efficiency of the oil boiler; and the cost of your off-peak electricity.

Oil at 60p/litre is 6pkWh. However with a really modern high efficiency boiler(90+%) that would cost about 7p/kWh.

With an average efficiency boiler about 8p -9p/kWh

Off-peak electricity can cost below 6p/kWh.

I would certainly switch off the boiler over summer.

Bonefish_Blues

Cardew wrote: »

Very probably E7 with an immersion would be cheaper - how much depends on the efficiency of the oil boiler; and the cost of your off-peak electricity.

Oil at 60p/litre is 6pkWh. However with a really modern high efficiency boiler(90+%) that would cost about 7p/kWh.

With an average efficiency boiler about 8p -9p/kWh

Off-peak electricity can cost below 6p/kWh.

I would certainly switch off the boiler over summer.

Thanks for this - our off peak's c6 ppu pending a switch.

Our boiler is one of the really efficient Grant Vortex units, so well over 90%.

So E7 just shades it, but not by all that much - is that correct?

Thanks