Scam Warning

RFW

frank_potter wrote: »

I would have thought that their actions would fall foul of The Fraud Act 2006 for starters.

I don't understand. If they are asked (as they have been in cases where convictions have been made) to keep listings live in what way is that fraud? If you are referring to something else please explain how it is fraud.

It is often the case that what we see on the surface is not the whole picture.

frank_potter

RFW wrote: »

I don't understand. If they are asked (as they have been in cases where convictions have been made) to keep listings live in what way is that fraud? If you are referring to something else please explain how it is fraud.

It is often the case that what we see on the surface is not the whole picture.

I was referring to the Fraud Act applying to the scammers.

I have edited my earlier post to clarify what I meant.

RFW

frank_potter wrote: »

I was referring to the Fraud Act applying to the scammers.

I have edited my earlier post to clarify what I meant.

Ah ok. It's probably harder to get a conviction from just that though, it's fairly easy to come up with a plausible reason that would convince a jury the scammer was possibly genuine.

They are pretty horrible scams but in one way or another they've been going on for many years, if anything when they're online they are a fair bit easier to catch. Hopefully the more information that is online the more these will diminish.

ScambusterNumber1

RFW wrote: »

I don't understand

As far as eBay scams are concerned, there are several types and each has a different methodology and, in turn, legal interpretation.

The type of scam that Frank's talking about is one that involves an account hijack. It's big business, be in no doubt, and while the type of scam that Frank showed in his OP appears rather crude or simple, there are a lot of people working behind the scenes to get it there. Some suggest they're in Bosnia, others in Ghana, but for the moment no-one seems to know for sure. But what IS clear is that the scam takes place 'outside of eBay', so the company wash their hands of any culpability - quite whether they have the legal right to do that is open to debate, but that's what they do.

The fact that people are bidding for on a scam listing is not relevant. The HAO (Hacked Account Owner) is usually oblivious to what's going on, but in theory the winning bidder would pay the HAO. Things never get that far though - because there are people like Frank and myself who try to get scam listings deleted as soon as possible. The longer they're 'live', the greater the risk of someone being sucked in, someone naive enough to respond using the published email address and NOT through the eBay mail system.

And because the soon-to-be-a-victim goes outside eBay, THAT is in breach of eBay regulations so eBay assume no responsibility, no liability. Once again, whether they can do that is debatable; perhaps it's vaguely similar to the tax scandals involving the likes of Google and Amazon, in that they do a wrong thing but it's not a legally wrong thing. So - they do it.

Other eBay scams include the 'zero-feeback' new accounts. A 9 year old child could do this, if he or she could find a credit card. To list something on eBay you need to enter a credit card detail. Of course, it could be a stolen one, or the data could have been stolen without the physical presence of the card itself. Then once the account is up and running, you can list anything you want. A Rolls Royce if you like. Anything. Then at the end, the winning bidder makes contact with the scammer to discuss payment, which is when the problems begin; trouble is, many of these scam listings are difficult to prove conclusively that they are scams so eBay rarely remove them. Today however I used a way that can convince them; it was a listing for a BMW M3 and everything about it was nice, including the mileage, and it was a no-reserve auction. I thought something was wrong so I copied some of the text - specifically, some mis-spelt words that would be easier to find - and Googled them in inverted commas. This is a search for that specific line of text, in that order. I got a hit immediately - the same car (same registration) on Autotrader a few weeks back with an identical description. The scammer, simply, had copied the Autotrader ad, saved it for a few weeks, and then used it to offer on eBay using a brand-new account. The location of the car in the Autotrader ad was in Surrey, but the location of the eBay ad was in Fife, Scotland. eBay must have agreed with me because within an hour the listing was deleted.

Scammers prey on people's naivete basically. They know there are people like myself who know what they're up to, who know most of the tricks and methods, but at the same time they also know that there are just as many people who know nothing at all about this kind of thing, and walk in blindly unaware that they are about to lose thousands. Of course most of the scam listings fail, but it's really just a case of throwing enough mud at the wall: some of it will stick. And it only takes one 'result' to make for a nice payday.

ScambusterNumber1

Want to find scams for Audis on Autotrader? Easy. With this search (which tends to be more productive at night), you will find scams. With the filters applied now (early hours of a Sunday morning) the result is 7 cars - and every single one of them is a scam.

Go to Autotrader and hit 'Search'. About 395,000 cars on sale just now. How to filter that down to 7 cars, and 7 scams at that?

OK.

You'll need to apply just 6 filters.

1. Audi
2. Min price £4000
3. Max price £6000
4. Age up to 5 years old
5. Mileage up to 60,000 miles
6. Private ads only

By the time you try this it might be daytime and hopefully all of the scams will have been removed. But try it again at night and you WILL get results.

And that's just for one brand: Audi.

RFW

ScambusterNumber1 wrote: »

As far as eBay scams are concerned, there are several types and each has a different methodology and, in turn, legal interpretation.

The type of scam that Frank's talking about is one that involves an account hijack. It's big business, be in no doubt, and while the type of scam that Frank showed in his OP appears rather crude or simple, there are a lot of people working behind the scenes to get it there. Some suggest they're in Bosnia, others in Ghana, but for the moment no-one seems to know for sure. But what IS clear is that the scam takes place 'outside of eBay', so the company wash their hands of any culpability - quite whether they have the legal right to do that is open to debate, but that's what they do.

I don't really see why you think Ebay can be culpable for transactions taking place outside Ebay. If it takes place within Ebay, then Ebay offer full buyer protection, so if it is a scam they would take the hit or get the funds back from the seller.

What would you propose Ebay (and Autotrader) did to stop this happening, above and beyond their current involvement with authorities?

ScambusterNumber1

RFW wrote: »

I don't really see why you think Ebay can be culpable for transactions taking place outside Ebay.
What would you propose Ebay (and Autotrader) did to stop this happening, above and beyond their current involvement with authorities?

Simple.

Option 1: Create code that blocks the listing of any ad which includes an email address (including those displayed in images)

or

Option 2: Employ someone who will delete such listing within minutes, instead of the current typical time-span of 4 - 6 hours

I don't think you understand the gravity of the problem. eBay's apathy (and Autotrader's) is directly responsible for massive levels of fraud. If they acted quickly, this problem would be very nearly eradicated. As it stands though, 6 hours for a given scam listing is plenty of time for the fraudsters to reel some unfortunate (if gullible) victims in.

I haven't even mentioned the latest craze: the 'second chance offer scam'. It's another issue that eBay are doing next to nothing about.

frank_potter

I have so far reported another four scam listings this morning:

181148279778 Ford 8340 Tractor

181148288074 mini digger micro excavator jcb 8008 and indespension plant trailer

190846771120 Kubota B6000 4wd Compact Mini Tractor front loader backhoe rear digger

230988164087 JCB 924 4WD forklift


Some of them reported hours ago and still not removed.

ScambusterNumber1

That's at least 6 so far today.

Others include 230988164087, 230988166671 and 330930449854

It's going to be a busy day.

POPPYOSCAR

Goes off to check ebay account!!