Please Help! Welcome finance PPI is now a CCJ!

wasowski

Hi, ok this is long, complicated and quite hard to explain so thanks in advance to anyone who has the stomach to read the whole ringmarole!

In 2006 we (my husband) purchased a car via a dealership, we had poor credit so the dealership used Welcome car finance as our lender. The salesman (call him 'S') gave us a rundown of the costs for the car which was £4,500ish and with the apr the total bill would come to around £7500. fine we said, so S told us it would take around a week for all the paperwork etc etc and he would be in touch. Later that week S rang my husband to say that he needed to come into the dealership because there was a problem, so in we trot.. S told us that Welcome needed to speak to Paul (husband) and he rang them from his desk and handed the phone to Paul, a man from welcome then told Paul that he could not have the original finance because Paul was a CIS contractor so effectively he was self employed and the only way they would lend the money was if he took their PPI policy with the loan - no PPI, no car. We desperately needed a car so Paul was then under pressure to say yes so did so and signed the paperwork that S presented to us. This agreement ended up at a total of £10550!
We never missed a payment until an accidental 'boing' at the bank in late 2009 when we genuinely didnt know that we didnt have enough money there, Paul recieved a very abrupt phone call on his mobile whilst at work demanding the payment NOW on the Tuesday, he explained that it was an accident and thet he wouldnt have the money to pay them until the Friday and could they please wait until then (3 days time) Welcome's response was basically NO, pay us now whether you have the money or not! Paul pointed out thet we had never ever missed a payment and couldnt give them what he didnt have and why couldnt they wait until Friday? Welcome again responded with a harsh 'dont care' attitude and began threatening to re-claim the car (which they couldnt do due to us having already paid more than half) they threatened CCJ's Baliffs, you name it. This went on all week! Phonecall after phonecall, at one point a man very agressively told Paul that "You WILL pay the money to me, and we WILL get it from you one way or another" Paul then became agressive himself (I think understandably) and hung up on them. He then refused to speak to them and as a result of their attitude they were not paid. It went on and on and on... We even tried to give them the car back, they initially said no they werent prepared to do that, and then sent us a bill for nearly £1000 to take the car away before they had even seen the thing


At this point we had £3138 left to pay, meaning we had paid nearly £7500. The credit agreement states 'total payable for goods £7791.52.

We realised that we had been mis-sold the PPI when all these adverts and Martin Lewis were on TV talking about it all. When we tried to claim the PPI was unfair and mis-sold Welcome sent us a form, told us they had investigated it and that they never sold us the policy and to chase the dealership (which had gone, completely..no longer there We had the FOS look at it and after about 2 and a half years they said, sorry we cant help because the dealership has gone out of business.)
Paul then told them that we would instead like to cancel the PPI and all they did was send us a letter saying that it had been cancelled and a refund of £64 odd had been deducted from our final total! The total amount for insurances on our credit agreement states £2763!!! If this is the case then surely a large remainder of what we owe is PPI and interest on PPI?

roll on to now,
We have tried to sort out a payment agreement with Welcome, they told Paul that they couldnt even find his accouont with them and they would call him back whrn they located it...they didnt..
Deloitte have taken on our PPI claim and are trying to re-claim from the dealership (which we still maintain didnt sell us the PPI) nobody seems to be listening to us re:welcome sold it to us over the phone

Anyway, as part of our process we had to call welcome to ask for a letter stating that they didnt sell us the PPI. Miraculously they found the account..and then told Paul over the phone that they werent sure if they could send a letter because they werent sure who was responsible for the selling of the PPI due to ...and I quote..'a box not being ticked'
They did send us a copy of the letter sent in 2009 saying they had investigated and decided that it was the dealership, which we sent to Deloitte.
A letter arrived yesterday from Northampton county court saying Welcome are taking Paul to court for failure to pay the contractural installments...£3999 plus added interest and costs totalling £4333.68

I have letters from welcome dated 2010 stating the debt

04/02/2010 £3138.96
16/02/2010 £3238.58
Within 12 days it went up by nearly £100 with no explanation!
The court papers say as of 02/04/2010 it was £3399.91
Where the hell are these figures coming from?! its like they are plucking random figures out of the air!
As I previously stated, when Paul rang Welcome to arrange to pay this off he was told that they couldnt find the account, so where in merry mooblie have they suddenly pulled this lot from?!
Even if Deloitte manage to re-claim ppi from the bankrupt dealership it looks like Welcome are going to end up getting it back plus masses of interest anyway by taking him to court, so how does this work seeing as they say they have nothing to do with the PPI? This is all becoming too confusing and we are literally at the point of destruction now, just want it all to stop.

I'm so sorry this is long but I'm trying to give as much info as possible in the hope of someone knowing what the heck we can do now, Paul wants to contest as its mostly PPI and PPI interest which was mis sold anyway..how does this work?
Even if Deloitte does end up getting us some PPI back its going to be paid back to Welcome for PPI charges and interest so how can they say that the PPI was nothing to do with them yet still ask us to pay for it?:mad:
We accept that we are a couple of hundred quid sort on the actual goods but we are willing to pay that, just NOT the PPI!

I really hope this all makes sense
Heres hoping that someone can help!

kittiej

OK let's have a look at this.

Has Paul got the actual credit agreement and is the PPI on there?

Has WF sent any default notices, termination notices, a letter to say they would start a legal claim after 7 days?

What does the particulars of claim say on the court papers? Are more details to follow from WF?

Will Paul be defending all of the claim or part of the claim?

He will need to use this to get the info from WF if he does not have copies of letters the CCA etc.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159445-Getting-Them-To-Reveal-Their-Vitals.-Using-CPR-31.14-to-Your-Advantage

Look at how the request should be set out as well and follow this but chop out the parts which do not apply.



Even if the dealer sold the PPI they would have probably been acting as an agent for WF so they might be the ones to pay out, certainly put this as a defence.

wasowski

the particulars of claim does not say anything is to follow, it is a solicitor - Hegarty LLP- and just states the long winded legal bumpf that basically says the contract (agreement no) was not paid and Paul is to pay the full amount plus interest at 8% per yera from 2010 until now ant then interest until the court date at 75p per day plus costs.

We have a scan of a credit agreement which shows the PPI on it and a signature that is nothing like Pauls, a letter saying we are in arrears and if we paid 75% of the sum it would be settled, another arrears letter, a notice of default sums and charges added and a default notice.

What I dont get is how to defend part of the claim, how do I explain to the court the situation? the little box is too small to fit in the story so do we just put a general - yes we wish to defend and then explain when we get to court- or do we have to explain it all on the form?

I just get the horrible feeling that Welcome are going to get away with making us pay for this damn PPI because they are a bunch of crooked s**ts!

wasowski

in the POC it states - the claimant complied with section III and section IV and Annex B of the PD pre-action conduct -

What the heck is that?!

kittiej

Pre-action protocol is the letter before action giving 7 days to sort this out before court action.

You need to follow the link I posted and use it to ask for copies of a copy of the credit agreement they have, copies of default notices, was there a termination notice?

Basically despite what paperwork you might have you need to see what cards they hold ie get them to provide copies of everything they mention in their particulars of claim.

re filling out the form, phone the court and ask them and say you intend to defend the case (if that is what Paul wants to do), oh and make a counter claim for the PPI etc?

If it were me I would put on the form that I intend to defend all of the claim and intend making a counter claim (though there is a fee depending upon how much the counter claim is) eg you would counter claim for the PPI and any other 'insurances' added by WF. (note it is up to you/Paul whether you want to do this, it's just what I would do ).

What does the default notice say? Is it in its original envelope and does it have a date on it? They are well known for issuing defective DN's.

DevCoder

1. what is your reason for being missold PPI, note that being told its a condition of a loan is not a reason as in your case it sounds like hearsay (excuse the pun).
2. You stopped paying (which is a silly thing to do, you should always repay but "under protest") your contractual amounts, how long before that and the "point we had £3138" left to pay, is this comprised of fees? Is this including the £1000 for taking the car back?
3. You cant get money out of a bankrupt / dissolved company, even if you are on the creditors list you are a very low priority creditor and will probably not see anything.

TBH from what you've written, you have a part in what happened (ie you refused to pay your contractual commitment). You may not like the way they communicated to yourselves but in that case you should have repaid 3 days later and just accepted the late payment fee, doing this "under protest" so you have grounds to seek redress if need be.

wasowski

Ive done the letter asking for all the paperwork, will post it tomorrow. I spent nearly 3 bleedin hrs on the court website putting all the information about why we want to defend etc and then when I hit 'save' the effing website crashed loosing everything...I am not amused!:mad:

wasowski

I have been told by the FOS that we were mis-sold the PPI, Deloitte are trying to get somewhere with that now, we didnt want it, need it or ask for it, Paul was a CIS contractor and classed as self employed at the time,so yes the PPI WAS mis sold.

No the £1000 to take back the car was not included in their figures, that was a whole separate can of worms.

Yes we did stop paying, because they refused to take our payment on the friday, we could not pay them because they wouldnt make the request to the bank, Paul has repeatedly offered them monthly amounts which they have said were un-acceptable they wanted £200 odd a WEEK from us and would not accept less.

Our issue is not that we wont pay for the goods, we will pay for the car, we are only £375 short of the 'price of goods' on the credit agreement (this is including interest), just not the PPI.

We have been chasing this for 4 years trying to come to a soloution and Welcome have been nothing but obstructive and abusive, they have made our lives hell.

kittiej

Are you making a counter claim for the PPI? Welcome made taking PPI out a condition of having a loan from them in an awful lot of cases.

Is there also a very small tick box for something called Guard-ex on the CCA? Has it been ticked?

The website crashing might have done you a favour. You will have a better chance if you have a defective default notice but we need to know what it says.

Does it state that remedy must be made within 14 days of the notice? This is an important point.

Can you also clarify that the car was purchased in 2006 and you are still paying for it? How many payments have been missed?

edit I see 2010.

wasowski

The car loan was taken out in 2006, we stopped paying them end of 2009 when the payment bounced and they started being 'difficult'
Not bothered about making a counterclaim as what we are refusing to pay (PPI) is the same amount as they say we owe apart from £375 odd which we dont mind paying.
The default says:

Without prejudice
dear mr H******
you are hereby served under section 87 (1) of the consumer credit act with the attached default notice (I cant find anything attached)
We intend to exercise our rights to enforce collection unless you clear arrears within fourteen (14) days or alternatively contact us with your proposals for settlement.

be advised that should you fail to contact us and legal action becomes neccessary we may apply through the courts for an attachment to earnings order to be made and deducted via your employers.
You have the right to end the agreement at any time before the final payment falls due. note that this right may be lost if you do not act before the date shown (after which we may take action) if the date for final payment has not passed and you wish to end this agreement, you should write to the person to whom you make your payments. (this I dont get as we made our payments to them!)You will need to pay £3092.11 if you wish to end this agreement by the date shown and we will be entitled to the return of the goods. You will also be liable for costs if you have not taken reasonable care of the goods. Note that if you end this agreement, this will not necessarily terminate any insurance finance agreements that are linked to this agreement.
This notice should include a copy of the current office of fair trading information sheet on default. This contains inportant information about your rights and where to go for support and advice. if it is not included, you should contact us to get one.
You will also be held liable for legal expenses incurred.
Westrongly urge you to telephone the undersigned immediately with your intentions.

Yours sincerely
(squiggly mark)
Welcome Finance

kittiej

OK I believe the DN should have stated an actual date and not within 14 days. Also I don't think it should be headed "Without Prejudice " either.

I would give National debtline a ring tomorrow and see what they say about the 2 issues I have pointed out, and what the implications are re your court claim.

These things will need to go in your defence.