4 hours free parking but 10 minutes over!

suzewuze

But the 4 reasons for appeal are...
1- stolen car
2-not parked improperly
3-not liable to pay
4-charged the incorrect fee

That's on the popla form. How can anyone help?

Guys_Dad

suzewuze wrote: »

But the 4 reasons for appeal are...
1- stolen car
2-not parked improperly
3-not liable to pay
4-charged the incorrect fee

That's on the popla form. How can anyone help?

Please read the POPLA Decisions sticky as I told you.

Let me quote one, but read the others yourself. Just note that not one of the 4 appeal points was used.

Read the sticky, then come back

Quote
Another PPC defeat. This time by PCM (from PePiPoo):-

The Appellant does not dispute that he did not display a permit.
It is the Appellant’s case that:
a) The parking restrictions were not adequately signed at the entrance to the site;
b) The PCN was incorrectly filled-in;
c) For the parking charge to be enforceable “there should be a loss to the land owner”. The Appellant submitted that “I can see no conceivable financial loss to the landowner or PCM as a result” of the alleged breach.
The signage produced in evidence by the Operator states that a PCN would be issued for “failure to comply” with the parking conditions. This wording appears to indicate that the parking charge represents damages for a breach of the parking contract. Accordingly, the charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The estimate must be based upon loss flowing from a breach of the parking terms. This might be, for example, loss of parking revenue or even loss of retail revenue at a shopping centre.
The Operator submitted that the charge “is a pre-estimation of loss based upon [the Operator] providing a 7 day a week parking service including permit management and daily patrols to the client.”
This does not represent a loss resulting from a breach. For example, were no breach to have occurred, then the cost of parking enforcement would still have been the same.
Consequently, I have no evidence before me to refute the Appellant’s submission that the parking charge is unenforceable.

Once again a PPc not being able to differentiate between day-to-day running expenses and a true loss.

suzewuze

But it's really difficult when you're not an expert and are in the thick of it all, being threatened with small claims court is not nice, especially when I've got small children and have a job where being taken to court would have me hauled in.

I see your frustration with me, but you are not me, you may well have the confidence in what you say, but I'm still very worried. I've done what you say so far...but what option do I choose on the popla form they sent?

suzewuze

THE VEHICLE WAS NOT IMPROPERLY PARKED
e.g. that the vehicle was not parked where stated on the parking charge notice; that you believe you were still within the time you paid for; that the voucher was clearly displayed or that the conditions were not properly signed.
However, the fact that you did not see the sign; that you bought a voucher but it fell down, that you did not see the bay markings or that you did not realise that you could not park where you did are not valid grounds of appeal.

THE PARKING CHARGE (TICKET)
e.g. that you are being asked to pay the wrong amount for the parking charge or that the charge has already been paid. However, the fact that you think that the charge is excessive is not a valid ground of appeal.

THE VEHICLE WAS STOLEN
e.g. that the vehicle was improperly parked after being stolen. However, the fact that someone else was driving your vehicle, for example a family member, friend or colleague, is not in itself a valid ground of appeal. The fact that you told the driver that they could only use your vehicle on condition they did not get any parking tickets is not a valid ground of appeal.

I AM NOT LIABLE FOR THE PARKING CHARGE
e.g. that you had sold the vehicle before, or bought it after, the alleged improper parking. However, the fact that you do not think you should have to pay the parking charge or the fact that you had paid to park (even if, for example, the voucher was not clearly displayed) are not valid grounds of appeal.
The Assessor can only allow an appeal if one of these grounds applies. The Assessor cannot allow appeals for other reasons, e.g. mitigating circumstances.


So there you have it, quoted from POPLA website. I have no grounds for appeal and they would not allow an appeal anyway.

Guys_Dad

Well, number one, you don't come back on knocking the people who tried to help you for a start.

We will help you assemble a POPLA case based on the standard appeal points plus any failures of the PPC.

Let's break down the particular circumstances in your own case.

1. Your original ticket. It needs to be compliant.

See if it complies with the following:-
Schedule 4 paragraph 7 of the PoFA stipulates the mandatory set of information that must be included on the parking ticket. If all of this information is not present then the Notice to Driver is invalid and the condition set out in paragraph 6 of Schedule 4 has not been complied with. Failure to comply with paragraph 6 means that the registered keeper cannot be held to account for the alleged debt of the driver.

Which car the ticket relates to
What land the car was parked on
The period the car was parked
When and how the parking rules were broken
What the parking charges are for the infringement of the rules, and of the maximum additional costs they may seek to recover, and the date by which those parking charges should be paid
Any discounts for paying within 14 days – which should be at least 40% of the full charge under the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice (applies to BPA Members only)
How to pay and to whom (this must be the person legally entitled to the money – the “Creditor”)
The date the time the notice was issued
How appeals and complaints can be dealt with – for parking companies who are members of the B PA.

2. Your Notice to Keeper.

The Notice to Keeper

Schedule 4 paragraphs 8 and 9 of the PoFA stipulates the mandatory information that must be included in the Notice to Keeper. If all of this information is not present then the Notice to Keeper is invalid and the condition set out in paragraph 6 of Schedule 4 has not been complied with. Failure to comply with paragraph 6 means that the registered keeper cannot be held to account for the alleged debt of the driver.

Which car the ticket relates to
What land the car was parked on
The period the car was parked
Advise that the driver is liable for the parking charge and the amount and that it has not been paid in full
State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when
Specify the outstanding amount of the parking charge and of the maximum additional costs they may seek to recover, and of the dispute resolution arrangements
Invite the registered keeper to pay the outstanding parking charge or, if he was not the driver, to provide the name and address of the driver and to pass a copy of the notice on to that driver
Identify the “creditor” who is legally entitled to recover the parking charge
Warn the keeper that if the parking charges remains outstanding after 28 days and the name and address of the driver has not been given, or otherwise known to the person entitled to the parking charge, that “creditor” will be entitled to recover the parking charge from the registered keeper.
Details of the discount for payment within 14 days, The Discount should be at least 40% of the full charge under the BPA Code of Practice (applies to BPA Members only)
Date of the notice

Any things missed off ??

Signs.

Have a look at Appendix B here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_CoP_June_2013_update.pdf

Were the signs compliant with the BPA requirements.

Now if any one thing in that list is incorrect, we include it.

If not, still no need to worry, we just do a standard appeal. Now I am not giving any guarantees that 100% you will win. But I am prepared to say that your chances are over 95%. Others will be even more bullish.

And if POPLA did fail, then there is still another bite of the cherry in the court.

So, a wee bit of work for you to do and then we can help you put together a good appeal.

edward123

suzewuze wrote: »

THE VEHICLE WAS NOT IMPROPERLY PARKED
e.g. that the vehicle was not parked where stated on the parking charge notice; that you believe you were still within the time you paid for; that the voucher was clearly displayed or that the conditions were not properly signed.
However, the fact that you did not see the sign; that you bought a voucher but it fell down, that you did not see the bay markings or that you did not realise that you could not park where you did are not valid grounds of appeal.

THE PARKING CHARGE (TICKET)
e.g. that you are being asked to pay the wrong amount for the parking charge or that the charge has already been paid. However, the fact that you think that the charge is excessive is not a valid ground of appeal.

THE VEHICLE WAS STOLEN
e.g. that the vehicle was improperly parked after being stolen. However, the fact that someone else was driving your vehicle, for example a family member, friend or colleague, is not in itself a valid ground of appeal. The fact that you told the driver that they could only use your vehicle on condition they did not get any parking tickets is not a valid ground of appeal.

I AM NOT LIABLE FOR THE PARKING CHARGE
e.g. that you had sold the vehicle before, or bought it after, the alleged improper parking. However, the fact that you do not think you should have to pay the parking charge or the fact that you had paid to park (even if, for example, the voucher was not clearly displayed) are not valid grounds of appeal.
The Assessor can only allow an appeal if one of these grounds applies. The Assessor cannot allow appeals for other reasons, e.g. mitigating circumstances.


So there you have it, quoted from POPLA website. I have no grounds for appeal and they would not allow an appeal anyway.

Now go here and see what appeals POPLA did accept and why. You will see that you can also likewise use POPLA and win.

Guys_Dad

suzewuze wrote: »

THE VEHICLE WAS NOT IMPROPERLY PARKED.......................... mitigating circumstances.


So there you have it, quoted from POPLA website. I have no grounds for appeal and they would not allow an appeal anyway.

Suze, are you not listening to what is being said. YOU DON'T USE THE APPEAL POINTS LISTED - YOU CHALLENGE THE RIGHT OF THE PPC TO CHARGE YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Did you not read the sticky? How many were won using these 4 appeal points.

This is my last go at trying to help you. You have cast iron proof that appeals are won on different points. You either accept that, or you are on your own - at least as far as I am concerned.

So, what's it to be?

suzewuze

But you're total experts here, I'm just the average joe(sephine) and none of it makes any sense. You might as well be telling me it all in Greek!
I've seen the popla decision sticky thread, looks like a lot more rejected than I'd hoped to see there. I've got the popla form and as far as I can see I don't have grounds for appeal. The signs were there, but not eye level, and I was too busy making sure two toddlers didn't get squashed by cars to read it.

I'm seriously confused by this mixed advice. You all say go through popla, but popla will only reject it. It's gobbledygook, I'm sorry but I don't understand all the legal jargon.

suzewuze

So how do I prove that UKPC have no right to charge me?

EHBA

I would say that the Popla Decisions sticky would, for a newbie, be difficult to understand well enough to formulate an appeal in relation to a specific situation, in this case a short overstay in a free car park

Could I point the OP at the Popla Information sticky, post 31

Suzewuse and any other newbies reading have to realise that mitigating circumstances, other than those that WOULD or COULD generate scandalous and massive adverse publicity, are of NO interest or consequence to PPC's or Popla.

Apologies for the use of Caps and bold