Silver threads amongst the gold

Perelandra

gadgetmind wrote: »

I think this is one of the final investment tenets to click into place with most people. High prices only favour someone who has all the equity holdings they ever want and are about to flog the lot for some reason. In all other cases, you're better with prices being low.

The truth behind this was most apparent for me in my employer's SIP scheme, where the number of "free" shares given each month declined below the maximum number possible.

It's comforting when the numbers are green, but when you're confident around your investment strategy, it's better when they're red!

DiggerUK

Shaolin_Monkey wrote: »

Whats an example of an "allocated metal account"? Something like Bullionvault?

Bullionvault does not offer allocated or unallocated gold. Best thought of as a gold backed ETF. You can get physical from them, when I costed the process I found them extortionate.

Allocated gold accounts mean that you own the physical gold, and can collect when you want. You pay a storage fee that usually covers insurance as well. There is no third party risk

Unallocated gold holdings usually mean that you have a general entitlement to collect the physical after paying a release or conversion fee. It is also usual for the storage holder to be able to lease out and collect the monies in lieu of you paying any storage fees.
If they can't deliver when you demand, then the get out of jail free card is that they can give you the value of your 'holding' in cash
The main reason I did not go down that road, was because I would have been classed as an unsecured creditor if the holders business went bust. Bairds provide similar services.

Unallocated is commonly referred to as 'paper gold' Most never have any intention of claiming the physical. It is therefore popular with traders and speculators.
..._

doughnutmachine

le_loup wrote: »

............... or could there be another reason?

perhaps all the investment banks etc that were part of the global conspiracy to hold down the price of silver/ gold managed to steal the keyboards from all the gold rampers...

it's the only thing that makes sense, they first smash the gold price then steal the keyboards of the gold rampers.

Perelandra

DiggerUK wrote: »

Bullionvault does not offer allocated or unallocated gold. Best thought of as a gold backed ETF. You can get physical from them, when I costed the process I found them extortionate.

BullionVault can do allocated (I think?) if you wish to take this option, and own sufficient metal. From their FAQ:

What is a "reserved bar"?

Ordinarily the gold or silver you own through BullionVault is not part of a specific bar, and most bars in BullionVault are part-owned by a number of people. But if you hold enough gold or silver in any vault to make up one or more whole standard bullion bars, then you can select bars up to your balance, and choose to have them registered against your name. Then they become "reserved bars" and are your exclusive property.


I may certainly have misunderstood, though, as I'm not a gold buyer.

bugbyte_2

I'm buying a small amount again.

DiggerUK

Perelandra wrote: »

......What is a "reserved bar"?.....

You need to spend a long time with BV t&c's, they are wordsmiths worthy of any award for confusion.

The bar they refer to is a London Good Delivery Bar, which comes in weights between 10.9 kilos, and 13.4 kilos; in old fashioned money that's 350-430 ounces.
You then pay a charge of 2.5% for the privilege of them being able to find a bar that matches your 'holding'. Or you could go for a smaller 'holding' converted to physical and pay 7.5% to get 'your' gold.

As they class anything smaller than 400 ounces as worthy of the extra 5%, you will not only have to 'hold' more than 400 ounces, but you will need them to find a bar to the exact weight of your 'holding'.

If your good with small print, go to their web pages with survival rations for a few days, and start reading.
..._

sabretoothtigger

Theres no need for allotted holding. The regulator already checks out these gold companies far harder then they will ever audit a paper bank

Most ETF even I know of are 1:1 not buying after the fact. The suspicion is overplayed.
If you tell me you 'own' gold options then that is more dubious as the stock may or may not be there to deliver especially in any spike (as is the nature of gold price moves)

I think gold miners are like options. In theory they got tons of gold but getting it costs alot of money hence they can easily go broke while 'rich' (see VGM)

gadgetmind

I wonder how many got caught out by the dead cat bounce in gold prices over the last few weeks?

Fortunately, most of my gold exposure is via Ruffer and they also had a major punt on Japan which has taken the sting out of things.

Perelandra

DiggerUK wrote: »

You need to spend a long time with BV t&c's, they are wordsmiths worthy of any award for confusion.

Fair enough. I'll pass on that suggestion, as I have neither the time nor inclination to really get involved with BV!

Perelandra

gadgetmind wrote: »

I wonder how many got caught out by the dead cat bounce in gold prices over the last few weeks?

At the moment, it's certainly looking like one. I will be interested in seeing where the line goes to; at the moment it looks headed for a new low.