Rip of Britain

John.R_2

Not that I don't wish to look further into the prices we pay in the UK compared to the rest of the EU - my original post (OP) was to look at the way energy suppliers here in the UK charge us, the customer, and how I honestly believe some skullduggery is going on.

I think the only way to resolve this is for us to work together and formulate a chart or spread sheet of sorts.

Yesterday I took some time out to ring companies, but I'll write more on that later on.

I know some one on here posted about the word transco being some 7 or so years out of date, but it is the word or term most people can refer to and gain an understanding from. In any case I thought I'd raised 2 valid points and was here to discuss those points not wording or spelling; I can see how the owner of this forum gets vexed when people who don't actually have any valid points to counter, simply want to type about anything other.

But enough about that, back to my OP. I rang Transco (National Grid) to ask about why they no longer publish the CV and was told that they no longer measure the CV. The delivery of all gas is now undertook by 'transporters' and there are 4 nationally; National Grid, Northern gas networks, SGN (Scotia Gas Networks) and (I think they said 'Rail and Rest').

And it is upto each of them to measure the CV of gas in the regions they serve and for them to inform each of the many suppliers.

I rang two suppliers covered by the Northern gas networks transporter. To be fair the customer service persons I spoke to did not know the CV altered, the chap I spoke to from SSE said for the 3 years he'd worked there the CV had always been 39.800 and the lass I spoke to from Npower said there was no such chart to see such information, nothing for her to refer to but gave me the billed CV from July through to Dec 2012;

July 40.000,
Aug 40.200,
Sep 40.400,
Oct 40.100,
Nov 40.000
Dec 39.900

If I 'do the math' for say Sep and a customers bill from both SSE and Npower they both use 500 cubic meters and they are both charged 5p per kWh;

At a CV of 39.800 (for SSE) the math returns 5,653 kWh and a cost to the customer of £282.64

At a CV of 40.400 (for Npower) the math returns 5,738 kWh and a cost to the customer of £286.91

A difference of £4.27

John R
It would be good to be able to backup my information with a link

Ken68

Ton of stuff in Google 'calorific value in the energy markets'.

http://www.gasgovernance.co.uk/sites/default/files/ofgem%20governance%20regime.pdf

40 sites, some give net and some gross figures.
And would LNG give the same results.?

John.R_2

Just out of interest, I thought I'd take a quick look at Npower Terms and Conditions.

But thought better of it.

I've read some Shakespeare, Macbeth has a total word count of 17,121

Npower, Terms and Conditions; 22,668 Words!

lammy82

A lot of the confusion about what point the OP is trying to make stems from the fact that OP seems to think that Scotland has already declared independence from the UK and is not part of Britain.

John.R_2

lammy82 wrote: »

A lot of the confusion about what point the OP is trying to make stems from the fact that OP seems to think that Scotland has already declared independence from the UK and is not part of Britain.

Now thats just plain Silly!

In many ways we in England and them there in Scotland differ;

Uni fee's
Upto £9k per year in England. FREE in Scotland.

Prescription fee's
£7.85 in England for each quantity of a drug or appliance from 1 April 2013. FREE in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.

Social care for the elderly
Cost per elderly person... sell your house in England. FREE in Scotland.

Travel Costs
In England free bus travel available to anyone aged 60-plus, with eligibility set to rise in line with the state pension age. Travel between 9.30am and 11pm on weekdays (or at any time at weekends or public holidays).
In Scotland
Free bus travel throughout Scotland for those over 60. Travel on any local bus or scheduled long-distance service at any time. Scottish Youth; 16 to 18-year-olds and young full-time volunteers up to the age of 25 a third off bus and rail fares throughout Scotland.

In any case we are off topic once more...

John.R_2

Cardew wrote: »

The only supplier who has used this method of varying the Tier1 allocation for gas over the year is NPower. It is called 'seasonal weighting' or 'sculpting'.

Npower says;
Some of our credit meter tariffs have two rates for the units of gas and electricity used:

• Primary unit rates are charged at a higher rate
• Secondary unit rates are charged at a lower rate

The primary rate units are applied to individual billing periods as follows:

• For electricity the primary rate units are charged evenly through the year at 2 units a day, a maximum of 728 units
a year.

• For gas the primary rate units are charged on a seasonally adjusted basis, with more primary units being charged in the winter months, adding up to a maximum of 4572 units a year.

Nov, Dec, Jan & Feb 882
March 272
April & Oct 271
May, June, July, Aug & Sept 46
Annual total 4572

So my first post is technically andf factually correct

John.R_2

Apparently there are over 4,000 tariffs in the UK and choosing one is overwhelmingly complex... (yes it is lol)

If we chose one region, say the northeast.

Does anyone know each standard cost per unit (kWh) for Gas and Electric???

British Gas
Co-operative Energy
Daligas
E.ON
EBICo
Ecotricity
EDF Energy
First:utility
Flow Energy
Good Energy
Green Energy
isupplyenergy
LoCO2 Energy
M&S Energy
npower
OVO
Sainsbury's
Scottish Hydro
Scottish Power
Southern Electric
Spark Energy
SSE
Swalec
Utilita
Utility Warehouse
Woodland Trust Energy

Nada666

John.R wrote: »

Apparently there are over 4,000 tariffs in the UK and choosing one is overwhelmingly complex... (yes it is lol)

If we chose one region, say the northeast.

Does anyone know each standard cost per unit (kWh) for Gas and Electric???

British Gas
[...]
Woodland Trust Energy

And the point of that post is? What are you talking about? Are you calling for pro rata standing charges - ie every single kWh is charged at a tier 1 price? What is wrong with a wide range of choice - are you wanting to limit choice and MINIMISE the chance of finding a tariff suitable for you?

Choosing a tariff is NOT complicated. You need three pieces of data and thirty seconds of time.

Cardew

Originally Posted by Cardew


The only supplier who has used this method of varying the Tier1 allocation for gas over the year is NPower. It is called
'seasonal weighting' or 'sculpting'.

John.R wrote: »

Npower says;
Some of our credit meter tariffs have two rates for the units of gas and electricity used:

• Primary unit rates are charged at a higher rate
• Secondary unit rates are charged at a lower rate

The primary rate units are applied to individual billing periods as follows:

• For electricity the primary rate units are charged evenly through the year at 2 units a day, a maximum of 728 units
a year.

• For gas the primary rate units are charged on a seasonally adjusted basis, with more primary units being charged in the winter months, adding up to a maximum of 4572 units a year.

Nov, Dec, Jan & Feb 882
March 272
April & Oct 271
May, June, July, Aug & Sept 46
Annual total 4572

So my first post is technically andf factually correct

Do you bother to actually read any post? You really should try - it helps!

This is what you posted:

Gas however is so complex, as the number of kWh's per month you pay at the higher rate goes up as the weather gets colder and, depending on supplier, jumps
from 45 kWh's in June to 890 kWh's in November. So if your tariff is, for instance, higher rate 7.227p per kWh and 3.634p for the lower; a bill for 800kWh's in June would cost you £30.69 and in November would cost you £57.82 on
the same tariff.

A sweeping statement informing people that with gas there was 'seasonal weighting' - i.e. customers were charged for a greater number of higher rate(Tier 1) in winter.

No mention of NPower in that explanation.

I pointed out that only NPower used that method of 'seasonal weighting' for gas.

All other Utility companies have a flat rate allocation of Tier 1 units. i.e.

Originally Posted by Cardew


All others on the tier system of charging, use
a pro-rata daily allocation So if they charge for say 2,800kWh pa on Tier 1, for each day of the bill you will be charged for 7.67kWh at the higher Tier 1 rate, regardless of the bill covering January or July.

lammy82

John.R wrote: »

Now thats just plain Silly!

In many ways we in England and them there in Scotland differ;

Uni fee's
Upto £9k per year in England. FREE in Scotland.

Prescription fee's
£7.85 in England for each quantity of a drug or appliance from 1 April 2013. FREE in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.

Social care for the elderly
Cost per elderly person... sell your house in England. FREE in Scotland.

Travel Costs
In England free bus travel available to anyone aged 60-plus, with eligibility set to rise in line with the state pension age. Travel between 9.30am and 11pm on weekdays (or at any time at weekends or public holidays).
In Scotland
Free bus travel throughout Scotland for those over 60. Travel on any local bus or scheduled long-distance service at any time. Scottish Youth; 16 to 18-year-olds and young full-time volunteers up to the age of 25 a third off bus and rail fares throughout Scotland.

In any case we are off topic once more...

My point was that you called the thread "Rip off Britain" but then when people pointed out that other countries around Europe are not particularly cheaper, you said that you meant that England is a rip off compared to Scotland, and you've given more examples of that.

So maybe you should have called the thread "Rip off England", or even "An investigation into the inconsistencies of energy charging within the UK". But "Rip off Britain" is typically used when claiming that we in Britain are generally being charged more than other countries so that is probably why people are confused as to what your point was.

Hope this helps.