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Rip of Britain
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Which has the slight advantage of being cheaper for direct debit payers (if you don't use the full "tier 1" allowance in any given month, which is likely in the summer).
Exactly!
To combat customers taking advantage of that scheme, Npower introduced 'Sculpting' to ensure more customers paid a higher proportion of Tier 1 units.
Some posters on MSE used to switch off gas for the two 'summer' quarters and make do with an immersion/kettle/electric shower/not wash!0 -
That is what the OP is saying, Cardew, the CV is ,maybe, not independent.The algorithm does what it's told.
And why should it be a disgruntled employee who blows the whistle, and not an employee who puts truth before wrongdoing.
Incidentally there are other indices under investigation, maybe the CV.
Either category of employee.
This link explains how companies get their CV.
https://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Gas/Data/misc/reports/description/
I have the impression that the OP thinks that the CV is the same on any given day across the whole of England.
All the OP has done is outline a theoretical method of criminally defrauding customers, and a particularly stupid method that is easy to trace.0 -
You could be right C ardew, but LIBOR wasn't that complicated.
I shall alert Private Eye, who reported on indice manipulation YEARS ago and should have been picked up by the other newspapers and the police at the time.0 -
Why don't you also complete this half -assed venture into statistics by providing other meaningful information vis UK & Europe, such as an annual gas / electricity usage comparison between a property in Northern Scotland, compared to one in Southern Spain for example.Suggest that you look at gas/electricity prices in most of Europe then see who is getting "ripped off"
I think if you took the mean monthly temperature between the UK and most of Europe you'll see our reliance on using heating begins much sooner and extends much later, I seriously doubt that currently, during the nights in the middle of May that they have their heating on full blast in Italy or Spain, unlike here in the UK. Therefore our annual consumption is three or four times that of an equiv property in some parts of Europe, so of course our energy is {slightly} cheaper, as we are using much more than most of our European neighbours - its called bulk buying.
Despite our {slightly} lower prices, I think you'll still find we are paying significantly more, for the reasons that i've outlined.
Sure, i'd be happy with a slightly higher energy price, if the UKs average winter temperatures rarely dropped below double figures, so my reliance on heating and the period I used it for was less, 'Summer' arrived in April and technically ran to October and my annual combined household Energy usage was 3 times less than it is, because thats the nuts and bolts difference between living in the UK and in a 'warm' country.
No doubt its only a matter of minutes before somebody comes along with the well worn "but Norway is colder and their energy prices are also more". Great!, if you want to use this to bolster your point, also make sure you post up the average Household income in Norway, ideally alongside the minimum wage and weekly state pension payments in the UK
For good measure don't forget the country by country comparisons, of the families and households currently living in fuel poverty compared to the UK
Cutting and pasting a link to a website solely containing Energy prices is completely useless (and pointless) without other material facts."Dont expect anybody else to support you, maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you have a wealthy spouse, but you never know when each one, might run out" - Mary Schmich0 -
If the CV is lower your boiler will use more cubic feet of gas to generate the same heat that is why the conversion to kWh is done. You only pay for the useful energy you can extract from the gas not the fresh air.
I have today spoken to my gas boiler manufacturer with regards to this point.
My boiler is a MAIN Combi 25 Eco. It's combustion (air/gas ratio) is preset at factory. And has efficiency of 91.0%
I asked if the boilers efficiency would alter if the CV was at its highest to its lowest - the answer was that the efficiency would be hardly noticable.
The boiler mixes air/gas to the level at which provides heat at the greatest efficiency. The higher the CV the more air added and the lower the CV the lesser.
It would be interesting to see a more up-to-date pricing for gas for each EU member and the calculation used given each EU members average monthly CV, to see the real cost.A kWh is a kWh! and no matter where you are in the world it is equal to 3.6 megajoules.
A kWh is not a kWh when you take in to account the CV value.
I can't paste a link, so try yourself searching for 'Convert Hundreds of Cubic Feet or Cubic Meters of GAS to kWh's' and by altering the scale of your CV on your old bills you will see how it alters the end kWh.0 -
The whole purpose of the CV is to convert volume to energy. If you burn a cubic meter of gas with a CV of 39 MJ/m3 you will get 39 MJ of energy out of it, if you burn a cubic meter of gas with a CV of 41 MJ/m3 you'll get 41 MJ of energy. Therefore the higher the CV the more valuable a cubic meter of gas is.
The efficiency of your boiler relates to how much of that energy it can convert into hot water. If it is 90% efficient then you'll 35 MJ and 37 MJ out respectively. And as 1 kWh = 3.6 MJ you'll get 9.8 kWh and 10.3 kWh respectively. So, you see, it need not affect the efficiency of your boiler at all but it will affect the output of your boiler. The lower the output the longer it will have to burn to heat your water to a given temperature.0 -
Why don't you also complete this half -assed venture into statistics by providing other meaningful information vis UK & Europe, such as an annual gas / electricity usage comparison between a property in Northern Scotland, compared to one in Southern Spain for example.No doubt its only a matter of minutes before somebody comes along with the well worn "but Norway is colder and their energy prices are also more". Great!, if you want to use this to bolster your point, also make sure you post up the average Household income in Norway, ideally alongside the minimum wage and weekly state pension payments in the UK
So has your comparison between the UK and Southern Spain taken into account the difference in average household income? If we're paying less per unit of energy than the Southern Spanish in absolute terms, how much less are we paying as a proportion of income?Let's settle this like gentlemen: armed with heavy sticks
On a rotating plate, with spikes like Flash Gordon
And you're Peter Duncan; I gave you fair warning0 -
Originally Posted by JSR
A kWh is a kWh! and no matter where you are in
the world it is equal to 3.6 megajoules.
A kWh is not a kWh when you take in to account the CV value.
Firstly JSR didn't make that statement - I did.
A kWh is a kWh regardless of the CV. It is not a variable term.
Do you not understand that the Calorific Value of a volume of gas determines the energy in kWh (Joules) of that gas.
Thus a cubic metre of gas with a high CV might produce, say 11.5kWh; whilst a cubic metre of gas with a lower CV might produce, say 11.0kWh.
The whole purpose of using the CV in the conversion of a volume of gas to kWh is to ensure that the correct number of kWh are billed.0 -
:rotfl:. I admire your (and others) fortitude in reading it. Actually I started to get bored halfway down the post and most definitely swtched off when he said Transco - which name, as everyone should know, hasn't existed for 7½ years. Frankly this simple error led me to seriously doubt the veracity of the rest of the data in the post. So I gave up. Sorry OP - you blew it.
Cheers
What a pointless post.
You did better than me, I turned off at the post title, 'Rip Of' :rotfl:
Anyone who can't spell 'off', more than once, is not worthy of listening to IMO0 -
I currently pay 21.92p x 2 Standing Charge for both Gas and Electric, with OVO
Gas per KWh 3.49p
Electric 11.06 pence per KWh
No confusing tariffs where you've got to use 10 Zillion Gigawatts before you drop down to their standard tariff.....and they pay me 3% interest on any monies im in credit with them (currently £241.62
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