PPC Court Claims 2012: The results are in!

bargepole

rew37 wrote: »

Who decides if this is vexatious litigation? I can't see the County Courts being very happy about this.

That would be the Attorney General's office, who would have to apply for an Order under Section 42 of the Senior Courts Act 1981. They have been provided with information.

Stroma

Bargepole (I think?) has already put a complaint in about CEL, because of the amounts they are going for and the obvious abuse of the court system. With parking eye and the numbers they are apparently going for I think it could be a possibility, there is no way that they can defend the claims. They are doing to try and make the defendants to cave.

rew37

bargepole wrote: »

That would be the Attorney General's office, who would have to apply for an Order under Section 42 of the Senior Courts Act 1981. They have been provided with information.

Thanks, on both counts!:)

The_Slithy_Tove

bargepole wrote: »

I've done a comparison on the number of requests for help with court claims on the Pepipoo forums, against the same time last year.

Between 1st April - 17th May 2012: 4 people asking for help with defences.

1st April - 17th May 2013 : 66 requests for help.

That's a 1650% increase, which would suggest the total number of PPC claims for 2013 will be in the region of 10,000.

I don't think it's possible to extrapolate the data you have in this way.
(a) The 2012 figure of 4 is really too small to be statistically significant, and a small change in that figure (e.g. if it were 6) would make a massive difference in the increase percentage.
(b) Other factors, such as a greater percentage of people receiving court papers then coming on-line for help will also sway the numbers.

I'm not saying the number of cases hasn't increased a lot, as it clearly has. I just don't think it's possible to suggest there will be 10,000 claims this year from the small sample figures we have.

bargepole

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

I don't think it's possible to extrapolate the data you have in this way.
(a) The 2012 figure of 4 is really too small to be statistically significant, and a small change in that figure (e.g. if it were 6) would make a massive difference in the increase percentage.
(b) Other factors, such as a greater percentage of people receiving court papers then coming on-line for help will also sway the numbers.

I'm not saying the number of cases hasn't increased a lot, as it clearly has. I just don't think it's possible to suggest there will be 10,000 claims this year from the small sample figures we have.

Yes the figure of 4 is too small, I did this late last night and wasn't going to slog through 58-odd pages of threads.

But whichever way you look at it, an increase from 4 to 66 in the equivalent period does suggest a sea change in the way the game is played.

The real test will come in the next few months as court deadlines approach - will they want to put these claims in front of a Judge?

The_Slithy_Tove

bargepole wrote: »

But whichever way you look at it, an increase from 4 to 66 in the equivalent period does suggest a sea change in the way the game is played.

The real test will come in the next few months as court deadlines approach - will they want to put these claims in front of a Judge?

Agreed.

Also, I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
I fear the number of cases being handled well by the valiant Pepipoo-ers (which probably won't make it to court) is only the tip of the iceberg of claims submitted through MCOL. There will be a barrage of poorly-defended cases, or those not defended at all (default judgements) which will both make the PPC's gamble work for them, and may provide sufficient evidence of won cases to let them off any potential accusation of vexation litigants .

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Don't forget even with loads of default judgements that ppcs may get doesn't mean they will even get much of it. Most will go unpaid

bargepole

Quite right, I've seen some examples where people have concocted their own defence, some of them are just laughable, the PPC must think "Kerching!" when they see that.

On a very rough calculation, perhaps between 5% and 10% of people who receive claim forms, find their way to the forums and ask for help with a defence. Of the other 90-95%, I would guess that half of them cave in and pay up, and there are quite a few who just ignore the court documents because they "don't look official".

You can lead horses to water, etc.

dggar

kirkbyinfurnesslad wrote: »

Don't forget even with loads of default judgements that ppcs may get doesn't mean they will even get much of it. Most will go unpaid

Can your clearify what you are saying?

Are you suggesting that people getting a CCJ against them will just ignore it?

If a PPC manages to get a CCJ against someone I can't see them not chasing it up.

Stroma

dggar wrote: »

Can your clearify what you are saying?

Are you suggesting that people getting a CCJ against them will just ignore it?

If a PPC manages to get a CCJ against someone I can't see them not chasing it up.

Default judgements normally mean that the papers served at the wrong address, maybe they have moved and not updated the dvla, others will have so many problems in their lives that this is insignificant. Judging by the numbers coming here with financial problems one more won't matter as they go for IVAs or bankruptcy.

Also to enforce a judgement costs more money, I am not sure but I think its about £100 to get the bailiffs involved, i'm sure somebody will correct me on that if wrong. With some of these claims they will go back to court to get these judgements overturned.

I'm thinking that the more claims that are coming through, the more desperate these companies are getting, the slide in payers is going down faster than they can threaten and try their chance at court. Even 10k is a minuscule amount considering there could be 900k not paying in total.