Term Time Holiday

angelil

springle_ring wrote: »

I don't think many teachers would begrudge a week for a holiday seeing how much more it costs to go in school holiday time, they should know, they have to pay those inflated prices too.

We do begrudge it though, as the time and effort spent on planning and delivering lessons then goes partly to waste, especially if the child then doesn't bother to catch up on their return. Plus, can you imagine if we all tried it in order to avoid the inflated prices? It would be a disaster. Sorry - I think that the rules are there for a reason and that it has to be the same for everybody. It doesn't help children to know/feel that the rules don't apply to them.

I'm also intrigued by people on this thread mentioning 'a full week of activities'. What do people mean by this? We don't spend the entire final week of school parking the kids in front of films if that's what is meant.

In my opinion, it is more of a problem when children take time out nowadays because of the way they are spoon fed for exams. That happens in primary schools for SATs and also for GCSEs.

If they miss a week, they miss being instructed how to write the course work and/or how to answer a section of the paper and parents can't easily fill that gap because it is only teachers who are privy to the inside information from the exam boards.

Obviously, teachers won't openly agree with me, but we all know how it works.

Nope, I'm a teacher and I openly agree with you! This is definitely part of it.

Richard53 wrote: »

Given that making sure your children get an education is a legal requirement, whereas sending them to school is not, I would like to know what is the legal basis of fining people for doing something which is not in itself illegal.

But when you enrol a child in a school, you agree to that school's terms and conditions - including term dates. If a parent doesn't like it, then you're right - they should take them out. Permanently. Children need to learn that school is not a pick and mix - just like work is not a pick and mix when those same children grow up and leave school.

Carl31 wrote: »

Im not sure if this is just me, not only do i not agree with the lost education element, but schooling is a cost to the tax payer, allowing your child to bunk off is just as bad as benefit fraud

Also, imo, when you decide to have kids you know they will have school, and you know that holidays will need to be taken in school holidays. If that messes with your lifestyle then maybe reconsider your role as a parent

:T

thegirlintheattic

If your school is only watching films during the last week of term then you need to look at a better school for your child.

Toto

I can see both sides to this. My husband works away (worldwide) for 80% of the year. He doesn't get leave entitlement, he has to fit in with the touring schedule set by the band/management. If we want a holiday we have to take it when he is home, regardless of the time of year. Obviously ideally we will take it during school holidays (little one starts reception in sept) but, I will take her out for a couple of weeks if needs be. I believe that our family time is as important as anything she may be learning and as long as we work hard to ensure she's caught up when we return I think it's justifiable now and then.

Tigsteroonie

Richard53 wrote: »

Given that making sure your children get an education is a legal requirement, whereas sending them to school is not, I would like to know what is the legal basis of fining people for doing something which is not in itself illegal.

This is interesting, I wonder if anybody has used this successfully in court against an LEA fine? Could I 'home school' our son to their satisfaction when on holiday?

As Andrew approaches school age (reception in September!) I find my attitude changing. I used to argue that I would take my son out of school whenever I wanted, travel can be educational, I know what is best for my child not the authorities, I was taken out of school each year for a week's family holiday and it didn't do me any harm ... But now I am beginning to see how the school and learning routine can be disrupted by doing this.

I wonder if there needs to be less 'fill in a form, headteacher says yay or nay" attitude to the request and more of a sensible discussion between teachers & parents about individual circumstances? Some children can miss a week of school mid-term, speak a foreign language and visit historical sites on holiday, and then catch up their schoolwork easily; other children can miss the start of term to sit on a beach for a week and struggle for the rest of that term. Fines would perhaps then be appropriate in cases where the parents haven't put their child's best educational interests at heart.

elisebutt65

I work at an FE college and we have our training week in the holidays. It really pe@s me off when students go off for a week or 2 here & there as we have no requirement for them to seek permission. I've had parents complain when I've failed a student due to them not handing in work. I give all the hand in dates out at the beginning of the year and send them to the parents as well, so there are no excuses.

I teach to a published scheme of work and put all my lessons up on our intranet as well, so that students can study outside of college and hand in work whilst they are away, if necessary, as all work is now submitted online. But they rarely do.

sillygoose

the real problem is the holiday system in this country. I miss the BC days of wonderful holidays as a couple or as preschool parents.

Jamming everybody into the same 6 weeks of July/August is stupid, many places abroad are plenty warm enough from May through September.

Its not just at school its a problem, I work in a critical industry with lots of colleagues also with school age kids the summer holiday is a total nightmare, I often can't get the dates or even enough days off and those left behind suffer being flogged to death by the short staffing.

I would stagger the holiday window across a wider window over 10-12 weeks with a specific holiday period assigned on a county basis.

It would take a massive reorganisation of the education system, and of course it would be a problem for those with kids in 2 schools in different counties (but I propose the shift in periods be made by 1 week across neighbouring counties so there would be plenty of overlap weeks

The advantage is it spreads the demand on the holiday market drastically reducing the cost and resorts will be quieter as other kids will be back at school.

Spendless

angelil wrote: »

I'm also intrigued by people on this thread mentioning 'a full week of activities'. What do people mean by this? We don't spend the entire final week of school parking the kids in front of films if that's what is meant.:T

The Secondary school my neice and nephew attend do an 'activity week' towards the end of the academic school year (not the last week). Children put their name down for what activities they want to participate in, which includes a trip to a theme park or ten pin bowling, or there's other events going off in school that aren't curriculum lesson based. I assume this is what people mean?

My son's Secondary ran a similar thing but just for a day last year, where the children did a range of activities including learning some Chinese writing and trying different foods.

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At Primary school, I noticed that the last day before the end of term was frequently about doing word-searches and watching a dvd. When eldest went to Secondary I found that this extended to more than just the last day as different subject teachers wrapped the last lesson up. At Christmas, son asked me for some reading books to take into school, he said several teachers had told him it had been a 7 week term and they'd only lesson planned for a 6 week term, so could read a book or some put on a DVD. I didn't understand that though, why wouldn't a teacher know how long a term was? They don't all fit straight into a 6 week block.


It's not as easy to just move them if they are at a school that does little in the last week before a term ends. There's 17 Secondary schools where I live, around 4-5 that I'd actually send my children to, of which son is at one of them. I moved into catchment to ensure we got in. Son is a Millennium baby and his year is chock-a-block. The only schools with spaces, well there's a reason why......

Spendless

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

We are talking INSET days.

In my LEA the term for students - 190 days - is set centrally by the LEA. They then tell schools to work out 5 days (or equivalent outside those 190 days) for INSET. The parents only need to know those 190 days as the 5 days INSET are in STUDENT holiday time so don't affect the students i.e. no extra child care.

The schools then individuality decide INSET dates - our LEA recommends dates which most schools (not all) accept. For example, the two days prior to term in September, the day prior to term in January and the two others done after school in Twilight sessions. So last September I knew the INSETS for this year and next year - and that information was given to parents.

That's how it's done here, so I don't see why other LEAs could not adopt that system, at least for maintained schools. Would probably also solve the misguided idea that INSET days are days student would have been in school. If you'd like to know further in advance why not suggest to your LEA/school to look at doing it the same. Would be easier for parents and for staff. Strange system to have INSETS randomly through the year as well, ours are either after-school or attached to a holiday - must confuse things.

I'm not saying that it's not done differently where you are - just suggesting that there are alternatives that work in other parts of the country.

That sounds like most of your schools all have the same inset days off? That isn't the case here. Do you live in a small area? There's 17 Secondary schools where I live, all with around 4-5 primary schools feeding into them, some Primary schools having more than 1 class per school year.

jellyhead

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

INSET days are not taken out of teaching time (190 days) but are additional. They are used for training, it's usually not a case of just going in a pottering about for a day without the kids. Many schools now do INSET in the evenings but that doesn't mean the kids have extra days at school.

INSET dates are usually published two years ahead of time, so really no excuse for finding it hard sorting out childcare - is two years not enough advance notice? Schools are not a free childcare service, perhaps if this perception changed it would lead to an improvement in behaviour, attendance and attainment.

As has been said, many LEA's only publish the term dates in advance. School usually have 2 or 3 of the INSET days on the list of term dates that they give out in September, but not always. We were given less than a week's notice for one of them this year.

I like Sillygoose's idea of staggering the holidays. There would be some clashes where teacher couples worked in different counties, and maybe some where divorced families might be in different counties, but that happens anyhow with holidays varying by up to 2 weeks between my county and the neighbouring one, and Scotland and Ireland are very different too.

To answer the OP. I applied for 1 day's holiday from primary last year, and it was granted. I think they are only granted if the child's attendance is more than 95%. Eldest was in 6th form and didn't have registration on that day. I called his tutor and asked if he could have the day off, and they said yes. He had no lessons that day, so it was study time that he was missing. I think 6th form is voluntary for the current year 12's anyway? His school don't authorise any holidays at all, but I don't know what the sanction would be for parents who took children on holiday regardless.

jolfc

The school where I work as a cook must be super organised then. I have got my list of holidays and teacher training days for sept 2013- july 2014 and have had it since febuary.I cook for a village school also and got their full list of dates teacher training included for sept 2013-july 2014 in march. In fact I have sometimes had them by the October after we start back in September for the following year.