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oopsadaisydoddle

judasblitzkrieg wrote: »

T-Mob and Orange's internal policies merged when they became EE, so he will have a credit limit.

Although the debt is his fault, you can complain about the way it was handled by Customer Services, because it's abysmal how they've been treating you.

This is the best (if slightly longwinded) way of getting a complaint through EE:

1 - call the call centre and request a manager to call you back at a time you specify. Don't speak to the manager on the original call as it impacts the agent's stats and they will do their best to fob you off lest their team look like they're taking the !!!!. You can have a much more detailed conversation if the manager calls you back

1a - if the manager doesn't call you back, ring back and speak to a manager on the call, your courtesy to them went out the window when they didn't call you back

2 - Explain, in the nicest terms that you accept that your brother racked up the debt, but that it's unfair for them to penalise your credit rating when you're making the best possible effort to pay it back. Usual reminders of you being a good orange customer and never having an issue before this should be placed frequently.

3 - If the manager can't put you back onto a payment plan without affecting your credit rating, ask to have a complaint raised to the chairman's complaints office. The manager then has to create an action on the system and should record your contact details. get them to read back the message they'll be submitting about it so you know they've got all the details down and correct if necessary

4 - wait. when things go to chairman's complaints you generally have to wait a couple of weeks for a response, which although frustrating is entirely normal.

5 - the chairman's office should contact you and attempt to progress your complaint further in the hope of closing it down (complaint resolution rates are their targeted KPI). Don't let them just fob you off, make sure whatever they advise you is in your best interest. You can reject offers from them. However, in my experience of the EE chairman's complaints, they're usually pretty good and as long as you're not being entirely unreasonable, they should be able to sort you out.

6 - In the unlikely event that Chairman's complaints can't resolve your issue to the satisfaction of both yourself and Orange, then you can request them to provide you with a deadlock letter. You then escalate this to CISAS, who are an independent intermediary (can't post the link, just google it)

7 - Finally, if CISAS cannot help you and don't provide a resolution within 8 weeks, you escalate to OFCOM.

You shouldn't need to go beyond point 5, or ideally point 3, really. Remember to ask everyone you speak to for their name and team number so you can keep track of who you're speaking to and you can cross reference your points with the notes on the system every time you make contact with them. You should also request that if you have to escalate to the chairman's complaints team, the amount you owe be placed into dispute, simply so that it's not ticking away and you aren't running the risk of missing payments or having your credit file affected.

This isn't a guarantee that your issue will go away, but this is the best way to complain through EE.

Good luck

If you look at the T&C's, I'm sure there is a clause that states the credit limit is 'not guaranteed'.

Also, there is no system that flags up unusual spend, it is just done on a completely random report which is usually only (but not always) there for new accounts.

The information you have given is not completely accurate.

It also sounds like OP has been told the default will be removed and a payment plan arranged - something that can (usually) only be arranged by the Exec (not chairman's office).

Who got back in touch with you, OP?

judasblitzkrieg

The credit limit AMOUNT is never guaranteed, everyone will have a credit limit of something.

The system we used at T-Mobile wouldn't flag up unusual spend, but it would automatically suspend a line if they exceeded their credit limit, the onus would then be for the customer to call up to find out why their phone wasn't working and the issue would then be discussed. The system was adopted by Orange when EE merged.

From what I read, it would appear that the OP is being offered to have the default removed, only if the balance is paid in full. Chairman's complaints have a lot of power, they're not the normal complaints team you find in the north east call centres, they are the head office complaints. To be honest, the default shouldn't have been applied in the first place, because she was making payments. Defaults should only be applied if no money is paid at all.

So, yes, I was being accurate, if not 100% clear

oopsadaisydoddle

oopsadaisydoddle wrote: »

If you look at the T&C's, I'm sure there is a clause that states the credit limit is 'not guaranteed'.

Also, there is no system that flags up unusual spend, it is just done on a completely random report which is usually only (but not always) there for new accounts.

The information you have given is not completely accurate.

It also sounds like OP has been told the default will be removed and a payment plan arranged - something that can (usually) only be arranged by the Exec (not chairman's office).

Who got back in touch with you, OP?

judasblitzkrieg wrote: »

T-Mob and Orange's internal policies merged when they became EE, so he will have a credit limit.

Although the debt is his fault, you can complain about the way it was handled by Customer Services, because it's abysmal how they've been treating you.

This is the best (if slightly longwinded) way of getting a complaint through EE:

1 - call the call centre and request a manager to call you back at a time you specify. Don't speak to the manager on the original call as it impacts the agent's stats and they will do their best to fob you off lest their team look like they're taking the !!!!. You can have a much more detailed conversation if the manager calls you back

1a - if the manager doesn't call you back, ring back and speak to a manager on the call, your courtesy to them went out the window when they didn't call you back

2 - Explain, in the nicest terms that you accept that your brother racked up the debt, but that it's unfair for them to penalise your credit rating when you're making the best possible effort to pay it back. Usual reminders of you being a good orange customer and never having an issue before this should be placed frequently.

3 - If the manager can't put you back onto a payment plan without affecting your credit rating, ask to have a complaint raised to the chairman's complaints office. The manager then has to create an action on the system and should record your contact details. get them to read back the message they'll be submitting about it so you know they've got all the details down and correct if necessary

4 - wait. when things go to chairman's complaints you generally have to wait a couple of weeks for a response, which although frustrating is entirely normal.

5 - the chairman's office should contact you and attempt to progress your complaint further in the hope of closing it down (complaint resolution rates are their targeted KPI). Don't let them just fob you off, make sure whatever they advise you is in your best interest. You can reject offers from them. However, in my experience of the EE chairman's complaints, they're usually pretty good and as long as you're not being entirely unreasonable, they should be able to sort you out.

6 - In the unlikely event that Chairman's complaints can't resolve your issue to the satisfaction of both yourself and Orange, then you can request them to provide you with a deadlock letter. You then escalate this to CISAS, who are an independent intermediary (can't post the link, just google it)

7 - Finally, if CISAS cannot help you and don't provide a resolution within 8 weeks, you escalate to OFCOM.

You shouldn't need to go beyond point 5, or ideally point 3, really. Remember to ask everyone you speak to for their name and team number so you can keep track of who you're speaking to and you can cross reference your points with the notes on the system every time you make contact with them. You should also request that if you have to escalate to the chairman's complaints team, the amount you owe be placed into dispute, simply so that it's not ticking away and you aren't running the risk of missing payments or having your credit file affected.

This isn't a guarantee that your issue will go away, but this is the best way to complain through EE.

Good luck

In fact this is mostly inaccurate. Exec (again, not chairman's office) are NOT targeted as you say.

oopsadaisydoddle

judasblitzkrieg wrote: »

The credit limit AMOUNT is never guaranteed, everyone will have a credit limit of something.

The system we used at T-Mobile wouldn't flag up unusual spend, but it would automatically suspend a line if they exceeded their credit limit, the onus would then be for the customer to call up to find out why their phone wasn't working and the issue would then be discussed. The system was adopted by Orange when EE merged.

So, yes, I was being accurate, if not 100% clear

Again, not true. IF the account was supposedly automatically suspended, then why did it happen? Because it can't be guaranteed and it should never be used as a safeguard. Also, it is a customer's responsibility to check their bills. OP didn't and suffered the consequences.

judasblitzkrieg

ok, so if I've mentioned the wrong department, how is it mostly inaccurate?

This is the process I advised many, many disgruntled customers on when I actually worked for the company and tracked their complaints till they were satisfied. Those steps get results

gjchester

wstock86 wrote: »

But they can just be ignored? It's an unsecured debt with a default already registered, I'm not going to pay another £1700 to clear off a debt that'll last 6 years anyway!

As has been mentioned you can but then risk a Count Court Judgement. If that is awarded against you then garnishing wages, freezing your bank accounts, putting a charge against other property (house or car) or "proper" bailiff's (rather than debt collectors) who can take things to sell could all follow. They could even make you bankrupt over it

However in all likelihood this won't happen, the debt will be sold on and you'll have debt collectors annoying you forever more..

judasblitzkrieg

oopsadaisydoddle wrote: »

Again, not true. IF the account was supposedly automatically suspended, then why did it happen? Because it can't be guaranteed and it should never be used as a safeguard. Also, it is a customer's responsibility to check their bills. OP didn't and suffered the consequences.

You're missing the point. the account SHOULD have been suspended. Why it wasn't is beyond me, but that's the point. The OP should be checking her bills, yes, but if her brother can run up over 2 grand in a month, then it's on Orange to inform her of excessive activity.

Honestly, if the OP had been paying £200 a month on a £10 a month price plan, I would agree that they'd have no recourse to complain, but to have their credit score screwed around like this because of her brother and then Orange messing her about, I think she is entitled to complain and to find out why Orange didn't act like a responsible lender and prevent that amount of premium charges from being accrued.

oopsadaisydoddle

judasblitzkrieg wrote: »

ok, so if I've mentioned the wrong department, how is it mostly inaccurate?

This is the process I advised many, many disgruntled customers on when I actually worked for the company and tracked their complaints till they were satisfied. Those steps get results

Because I worked for Orange and know people who still work there who also deal with T-Mob queries. And yes, if OP escalates it as far as he can but I can't help thinking that if he has been offered the removal of the default, then it is likely it is the Exec Office who have already looked at it.

I KNOW that the so called 'credit limit' is for T-Mob use only and if you have previously advised customers that this is something to be used to their advantage, then either you weren't doing your job properly (not saying this is the case) OR T-Mobile have changed their processes since you left.

And OFCOM do NOT deal with individual complaints. If someone contacts OFCOM, they refer them back to the Exec Office.

Also, if a customer take it to CISAS and they lose (which I daresay they will in this case due to it not being part of the contract that OP was guaranteed to have service stopped at whatever amount) then it is possible that they will lose any offer they have been made previously.

If it gets as far as the Exec Office, then I daresay he will get some reduction but I doubt very much it will all be wiped.

oopsadaisydoddle

judasblitzkrieg wrote: »

You're missing the point. the account SHOULD have been suspended. Why it wasn't is beyond me, but that's the point. The OP should be checking her bills, yes, but if her brother can run up over 2 grand in a month, then it's on Orange to inform her of excessive activity.

Honestly, if the OP had been paying £200 a month on a £10 a month price plan, I would agree that they'd have no recourse to complain, but to have their credit score screwed around like this because of her brother and then Orange messing her about, I think she is entitled to complain and to find out why Orange didn't act like a responsible lender and prevent that amount of premium charges from being accrued.

Again, completely false. IT IS NOT up to T-mob (not orange) to inform the customer of the usage because THEY CANNOT GUARANTEE that the usage will be flagged. As i said, it is only flagged on a completely random report and should not be used by anyone as a safeguard. If the customer wanted that service, maybe they should have opted for UFIX.

judasblitzkrieg

I never once advised that the credit limit was to be used for a customer's advantage and I'm not suggesting that here. I advised people on the credit limit as at the time, they were allowed to know if it was relevant to their issue and in this case it provides context for the fact that the line should have been suspended.

However, from what you've said it would appear that I've been mis-informed. I left T-Mobile just before the EE rebrand and I've always been told that Orange and T-Mobile merged their own policies. It would appear that's not the case and Orange's operation is woeful compared to T-mobile's (which was pretty bad, FYI).

I'll weigh out of this one, then.