Beware of unnecessary payment hikes - Scottish Power

eschaton

Scottish Power are well known for this.

After a period of relative calm where they haven't tried to rip me off, they told me a few days ago (sorry, they never actually told me, I had to find it on the bill) that they were increasing my DD.

Not unexpected, but based on their figures for ongoing same usage, they were increasing my DD to 110% of what it should be.

I have e-mailed them once again telling them to leave the DD alone as my current deal with them ends in July 2013. I am awaiting a reply.

I have been with them for nearly 13 years and am likely to leave them in July as all they ever do is !!!! the customer off continuously.

Nada666

If the deal ends in July then there are a great number of months after that at a new more expensvie price - surely 10% is reasonable and well within bounds. If your annual bill does not increase by 10% then you can't have been on much of a great deal in the first place.

Another, very likely, unjust whinge.

maxtweenie

I moved back to Scottish Power on a fixed price deal from EDF in October. I too this week received notice that my Direct Debit would be increasing, form £97 to £172. I kept copies of my online account from EDF and used that to give them an accurate annual usage when I moved over, so yesterday I rang their no-helpline armed with all of my evidence, including Scottish Power's own bills from 2009 to 2011. The woman who answered was obviously reading from a script and kept telling me the hike was because I was in debit. Well duh, isn't that just because I moved to them in the winter quarter I asked? I have my daily averages for the last four years and they haven't changed, so it will even out I told her. But it seems that they do not like you owing them at all, and they wanted to set the DD at a level that pays for my annual usage AND clears off the debit from the winter quarter, effectively making me pay twice for the winter usage. How fark - ing stupid is that? The only way I could get a resolution was to insist they treat my call as a complaint as it appears that the call centre operators cannot amend Direct Debits.

Simon7685

Isn't it strange how everyone contributing to this thread are all wrong apart from NADA666?????

As for me and the £116 you believe I should be paying I will post back with exactly what that will result in and just to keep to your idealistic logic I will even calculate it from April to April.

Simon7685

Nada666 wrote: »

No, he is breaking the agreement for paying by direct debit. His instalments have not been unfairly increased.

Incorrect information I am not breaking the rules for paying by direct debit. I am entitled to to pay my bills as I choose, this includes by a mutually agreeable direct debit amount, a quarterly direct debit based on the amount of my quarterly bill, by cheque once a quarter, by crediting my account as often as I choose through internet banking, by payment card, by cash at my bank, or post office or paypoint.

My installments were unfairly increased as Scottish Power based the figure on a usage of 19000 units a year. I can categorically prove that in 9 years at this address the most I have ever used is 14500 units.

Therefore this is an unfair increase.

Also if Scottish Power are correct in imposing payments of £126 a month, perhaps you might like to explain how according to you my payments should be £116 a month as stated in your las post????

Simon7685

Right here goes;

I have rounded usage figures UP to the nearest 100 to make calculations easier to be read, rather than having odd units flying round.

My annual usage based on an average of the last 9 years is 13850 units.

The heaviest ever year was 2010 to 2011 when I used 14500 units.

So I will first revisit April 2012 to April 2013

Units actually used and rounded up was 13900
The cost for this usage is £1195.90

Payments for this period are 12 X 97.65 = £1171.80

Cost less payments = 1195.90 - 1171.80 = -24.10

However I qualified for the WHD which is credited at the end of March, so this is now taken into the calculation.

Cost = 1195.90 Payments = 1171.80 WHD = 130.00
Balance of account = £105.90 Credit

Therefore excluding the WHD payments my payments @ £97.65 a month were correct. Had I joined Scottish Power last April and not in October this is exactly how the first year would have worked using actual usage figures.

Now looking ahead to April 2013 to April 2014

In trying to be as realistic as possible and knowing my average usage is 13850 units a year, I am very happy to calculate the figures on a usage of 14500 units.

This figure represents the most I have ever used in any of the last 9 years and is therefore biased towards the energy supplier as it is unlikely I would use that amount based on the evidence of prior use.

Forecasted usage 14500 units
Cost of that usage is £1240.98

Payments = 12 X 97.65 = £1171.80

Balance of account = £-69.18
Also factored in is the deficit from my actual bill from 31/03/13;
-69.18 - 92.00 = £-161.18

I qualify for the warm home discount again this year which is £135 to be credited by end of March 2014. So,

-161.18 + 135.00 = £-26.18

Therefore assuming my usage in the next 12 months is equal to the highest ever usage I will owe Scottish Power £26.18 next April.

So in conclusion if you want to be really picky my payments for the next 12 months should be;
£1171.80 + 26.18 = 1197.98/12= £99.83 per month

Now I am sure you will come back and say I can't include the WHD, well actually I can because I will qualify for it.

However to satisy your logic I am prepared to discount the WHD, in doing so I am also going discount the usage figures which were calculated using the highest ever usage amounts.
In fairness my bills for the last 9 years say my average useage is 13850 units, so that is a fair assessment figure to use.

13850 unit will cost me £1192.88 + 92.00 owing from last bill = 1284.88

Payments = 1171.80

Balance of account = 1171.80 - 1284.88 = £-113.08

So payments to cover this would work out at 1284.88/12= £107.07 per month.

However not taking into account the WHD to which I am entitled because I qualify somewhat defeats the object of what it is paid for. The WHD is credited to peoples accounts at the end of March to help cover the cost of heating during the preceeding winter, it is a retrospective payment to cover energy already used.

In conclusion no matter how you work it out my payments of £97.65 a month are sufficient to cover the energy I use.

Even without WHD the maximum they would need to be for the next 12 months would be £107.

NADA666 has decided I should be paying a minimum of £116 a month if I paid this for the period April 2013 to April 14 then this would be the scenario;

Average use = 13850 units = £1192.88
Payments = £116.00 X 12 = £1392.00

Account at April 2013 = £-92.00
Account at April 2014 = 1192.88 + 92.00 = £1284.88

1284.88 - 1392 = 107.12 in credit
plus the WHD of 135.00 which would be credited in March 2014 = £242.12 CREDIT.

YOUR FIGURES AND CALCULATIONS ARE FLAWED!

Scottish Powers are even worse...........

They want me to pay 12 x 126.00 = £1512
Cost of average year = £1192.88 + owing from last bill 92.22 = £1285.10

Balance of account before WHD = £226.90 in credit
Plus WHD credit March 2014 = 226.90 + 135.00 = £361.90 in credit in April 2014.

I guess that is ok though as they can offset it against my next 12 months usage!

These calculations are accurate, my costings are accurate, there can be no price hikes affecting me as I am on a fixed tariff to Nov 2014.

My payments of £97.65 are spot on, I check my use against my payments on a monthly basis using year on year figures, so I can adjust them if needed.

I will not bow to pressure from an energy company that wants me to line their pockets with MY money.

I am entitled under the terms of my supply to pay my bills quarterly in arrears, that is how it has always worked. I choose to pay for my energy by monthly payments. This is beneficial to the energy company not me. As such monthly direct debits have to be at an agreeable amount set between both parties.

If my calculations did not work out, they would not have agreed to reset my payments at the £97.65 they did.

Now NADA666 if you still think I have to pay at least £116 a month, prove it to me. You have the figures relating to usage, if you wnat the unit costs let me know and you can have them.

Until you can demonstrate I am wrong in black and white on here, stop accusing me and others of whinging.........

wakeupalarm

Scottish Power need your money to pay for their massive fines for mis-selling and mis-leading customers. They don't want to pay for it with their own money so they hike cusomters Direct Debits instead.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2319498/ScottishPower-set-heavy-fine-mis-selling-probe.html

eschaton

Nada666 wrote: »

If the deal ends in July then there are a great number of months after that at a new more expensvie price - surely 10% is reasonable and well within bounds. If your annual bill does not increase by 10% then you can't have been on much of a great deal in the first place.

Another, very likely, unjust whinge.

You would think you worked at Scottish Power or something

The deal I am on is good. Wish it wasn't ending.

The calculations on my bill are based on current prices, not an unknown future price.

Nothing unjust about my comments regarding Scottish Power. I have been a customer for nearly 13 years and only in recent years have they started trying to use the bank accounts of customers to help their own cash flow. If my issues with SP were not true then they wouldn't have given me a goodwill payment last year after trying to increase my DD when not justified.

It is very unlikely that I will be a Scottish Power customer after July unless they launch a new cheaper tariff than they are currently offering. It's not like they have the image of being great at customer service to retain custom.

nsdlil

Dear Forum ,
My experience almost exactly mirrors that of maxtweenie and the cycle repeats itself every three months as SP tell me they review the level of DD at that interval , unrelated to one's submission of actual meter readings (which in my case is each month) . This winter our CH usage has increased by about 33% due to sickness causing my wife and I to become largely housebound , but in January after entering my meter reading I made a supplementary card payment to cover that extra usage and after transferring to 'Complaints' from the regular help desk (accents switch from Scottish to English !) a later proposed DD hike was rescinded . In April I made another similar supplementary card payment and with once again reference from help desk to 'Complaints' the proposed DD rise has been rescinded . The companies set initial DDs on an annual basis when you transfer to them , and obviously if they accept you as a Autumnal transferee they will be out of pocket in the Spring . If they want to impose Spring nil balances on all customers they should illustrate this in their initial quotes , otherwise surely DD s ought to stick to the common-sense objective of balancing on an annual basis .

Simon7685

You are entirely right. When monthly direct debits were first introduced the idea was that your supplier would take your annual usage divide it by 12 and that would be your monthly payment for the next 12 months.

On review at the end of 12 months, if you owed them anything, you either paid it, or the balance was factored into your new assessment.

The whole idea of it was so customers knew where they were and could budget for the payment coming out of their bank every month. It is worth noting as well that this method of paying is much more beneficial to the supplier as well. Traditionally people with accounts paid their bill at the end of each quarter, therefore were always in arrears, however that is how it works. By paying monthly the energy companies have the benefit of your payment each month thereby not having all their customers owing them all the time.

At this point the energy companies have got greedy, not satisfied with an equal payment they want to adjust it so that in fact every account is permanently in credit. They want people carrying a large credit balance into the winter so that come March/April time you do not owe them any money. If you owe them you have to pay up or accept a big hyke in your payments, if they owe you, that is different, you are building towards next winter.........

In my own case at the end of March I owed them £92, they wanted to increase payments to £126. In July when my next bill is produced I will have used around £150. So I owe them £92 + £150 - £378 paid. That would have left me £136 in credit. I would guarantee that my payments would stay the same for the next quarter. So by then I would have £514 in credit with 3 months usage to come off, around another £150, leaving a balance of £364 in credit.

This would mean as October is my anniversary date I would have overpaid by £364 for the year. However they would say that the £364 credit was in fact built up to take me into the winter period and that is how it should be.

I believe at that point they would possibly have reduced my payments to around £100 a month until March/April, the end of winter. At this point they would put them back up and tell me I was saving for the winter period once again.

The energy companies are out for themselves, not the customer, their billing systems are designed to always make sure you over pay so you do not owe them money. If that means you struggle to meet the payments, do they care, NO!

My usage will be reassessed by me on an ongoing basis as it always has and if by October this year the account is balanced then my payments are right and they will not be increased. If I owe them a few pounds I will pay it but I will not allow them to get away with trying to impose their biased system on me.

You have to be able to stand up against them and stick to your guns, after all it is your money not theirs! As long as you are prepared to pay anything you owe at the end of each quarter, they cannot dictate to you about how much you have to pay.

They know that they rip people off with their payment systems, hence when someone comes along that knows how it works and can quote figures back at them, they will back down. Unfortunately most people just accept what they tell them and take the attitude that if they have to pay it, they have to pay it.

Not on my watch........