Beware of unnecessary payment hikes - Scottish Power

Simon7685

Moved to SP last October, at the time I gave them my annual usage which meant my payments to cover this usage in the first year would be £97.65 per month.

I then applied for and got the warm home discount which was applied to my account in March. When my end of winter bill was produced on 31st March it left me with a deficit of £92 on the account.

This was expected bearing in mind we are talking about the end of the winter and most expensive 6 months of the year, as far as energy use is concerned.

Initially I received no notification of changes to my payments until last weekend. Then I received an email advising me that they were increasing payments to £126 a month. The laughable part was when I looked at the dates, the recalculation was made on 23rd April, after my monthly payment, which meant at the time my account was back in credit.

I started looking deeper into it, to discover to get to the new monthly payment they had decided that I was going to use 19000 units in the next 12 months. Not only is this 4500 units more than I used last year, it is also more than I have ever used in the whole 9 years living at this address! The highest usage ever was back in 2010 to 2011 at 14453.

So I rang asking for an explanation..........
"We don't have your previous usage figures" I was told. "We have based you next 12 month usage on the last 6 months" he went on.

Now has anyone spotted the flaw with that????
a. How can they estimate 12 months use based on 6 months use that includes winter, the heaviest time for usage.
b. They knew that last year my use was 14300 units, nowhere close to 19000.

I advised I had no intention of paying £126 based on their wild assumptions. so they offered to reduce it.......
To £125 a month!
I said I know that £97.65 covers me and that is without the warm home discount being applied, as I read my meter every week and my computer calculates my usage to the penny, so it was staying at £97.65. I also advised that if they wanted my bills and usage for the last 9 years to back up my claimes I was quite happy to provide them.

He said he took my point and asked me to hold, when he came back he said, "OK we can reduce your payments to £115 but that is the best we can do". I said no deal, it stays at £97.65 or I cancel the DD and will pay the money manually to my account every month. He still refused to budge, so I said look it is my money and I will choose how much I am paying, my figures are right, yours are wrong and it stays at £97.65.

He said "you owed us money when your bill was produced and we have to make sure you don't get into debt". I said what do you expect it was the end of the winter period, I would expect to be carrying a deficit into the spring quarter, it will level out between now and October, which is the end of my 1st year. The idea is that over 12 months I pay you what I use and at the end of it neither of us owes the other money. If I pay £115 a month you will end up owing me money by October - about £100 excluding the WHD credit. He said "that is ok and they will offset that against my next winters bill.......

So in effect he was actually saying, you are not allowed to owe us money or we put your payments up but if we owe you that is ok and we offset it against future use and that is not on.

This went on and on for about 40 minutes during which I backed up all my figures and proved beyond doubt that £97.65 would cover my use. He then went away and came back to say they would reduce it to £100 with an undertaking that I paid in full any outstanding balance that was owing after submitting an up to date reading.

I was not going to budge on this as I knew I was right, so I declined the offer logged into online banking and advised him I was going to cancel the DD, unless they went with my payments staying the same. He refused and said I can't do that. so I said well in that case I want to speak to someone who can, a manager. He eventually agreed to transfer my call.......

I was put through to someone and the call went like this.......

Mr XXXX I understand you want your payments put back to £97.65 a month?
Yes that is correct as that is what my usage works out to excluding the WHD and your figures are based on nearly 5000 more units than I have ever used.
OK thats done for you, your payments will stay the same:eek:
I was gobsmacked to say the least. So I said if it was as easy as that, why have I just had to go through what I have?
He wasn't allowed to reduce your payments back to £97.65, I am and its done, is there anything else I can help you with........

I am still trying to comprehend that call a week later but what I believe it has proved is that they were artificially trying to inflate my usage and therefore payments. Which I believe is because they want me to have a large credit moving into next winter, so I end up not owing them anything at the end of it.

The bottom line is if you know what your usage is and how much your bills will/are, do not accept their price hikes and make sure their assumptions on what you use each year are accurate and not inflated by over 30%.

It is your money, not theirs, don't let them walk all over you!

keiran

I've been with scot power for 2 yrs now and it's clear that they are nothing more than thieves in the way they deal with D/Ds

DragonQ

I've only been with Scottish Power for electricity, which means usage doesn't really change much month-to-month. My direct debit has been at £36pm for a few months now and that's maybe £1pm more than what we use, so our under £10 debit is reducing slightly each month.

The other day the website informed me my direct debit was going up to £47pm after I entered a meter reading. I called up and said I'm not having that because in a single month I'd go from being ever so slightly in debit to being in credit, and beyond that they'd be taking money from me for no reason. They agreed and returned the direct debit to £36pm, which means the account will be at £0 in a couple of months anyway. My experience was a bit easier than yours it seems.

I did laugh when you refused £100pm though. Surely you realise you can never be that accurate with estimated usage and cost, right? There's no way you'll have the same usage to the nearest kWh year-on-year - what if someone unexpectedly comes round and you have to put the kettle on?

Wywth

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/lower-energy-direct-debits

Nada666

You have provided zero evidence that the bill was inflated. If you are so clever then you know you are not right.

As you joined in October you do not have the previous summer's payments in your balance. Thus you were £92 short. You should be paying £106 or £114. You rejected both £100 and £115. You are the one who is in the wrong.

(Hmm, just noticed that your monthly amount appears to be include the warm homes discount not exclude it - so your claim is even more wildly out by an additonal £130. Plus of course you were only with them for five or six months!)

Nada666

[It is getting really tiresome all these annoying brats cluttering the forum with their "ooh, I'm special, I'm privileged, I should not have to adhere to the rules" posts.]

Simon7685

Nada666 wrote: »

You have provided zero evidence that the bill was inflated. If you are so clever then you know you are not right.

As you joined in October you do not have the previous summer's payments in your balance. Thus you were £92 short. You should be paying £106 or £114. You rejected both £100 and £115. You are the one who is in the wrong.

(Hmm, just noticed that your monthly amount appears to be include the warm homes discount not exclude it - so your claim is even more wildly out by an additonal £130. Plus of course you were only with them for five or six months!)

Actually Nada666 I am not wrong I am entirely correct.

My usage year on year is calculated every month by the spreadsheet I built. It has been tracking my usage for the last 4 years. during that time my figures have been within pennies of my bill every single time. The only annomoly is due to the rounding procedure between my calculations and my suppliers calculations.

To make it simple here are the figures;
December 2009 to Dec 2010 my usage was 13343 units.
Using the current tariff rates the cost is £1150.81 which works out at £90.95 per month.

Dec 2010 to Dec 2011 (which included the coldest winter for many years) usage was 14453 units at current prices that is £1258.25 which works out at £104.85 a month.

Dec 2011 to Dec 2012 usage was 13811 units = £1188.98 which is £99.08 a month.

Previous usage for 2004 to 2009 all worked out to an average of 13500 units a year, taken from the bills I received. So please do not have the audacity to tell me I am wrong, I am the one who has the figures and the history to back up my calculations.

SP are the ones who decided I was going to use 19000 units in my first year with them not me. They are the ones who are wrong.

You may also like to note that the above figures do not include the Warm Home Discount in the calculation, when that is included, in the case of 2011 to 2012 it actually means it works out as follows;

Cost = 1188.98 less 130WHD = 1058.98 / 12 = £88.25 a month. All figures are calculated and include VAT.

Regarding me owing them £92 at 31 March, yes I did. You would expect to owe a supplier at the end of winter, especially when you have not had the summer previously to build up a credit. However that does not give the energy company the right to inflate someones usage. Deciding I am going to use over 4000 units more than I have ever used, is inflating someones bill, which ever way you cut it.

My figures add up as does my usage, all of which I have offered up to SP for scrutiny. The truth is energy companies want everyone to be in a credit position 12 months of the year, which is not how monthly direct debit payments were intended to work.

As for thinking I am special, or privelaged or anything else, I suggest you put your brain in gear before engaging your mouth, or typing finger(s). I have never suggested anything of the sort, however if refusing to allow the energy companies to walk all over me and fleece me of money I can ill afford, then I am guilty.

Incidentally my usage has decreased to around £15 per week since the start of April, therefore a £92 deficit will be eaten into at the rate of over £30 a month. It will decrease even further as summer arrives and will stay low until around October time. I know exactly how much energy I use, how much it costs and how much I need to pay!

As for needing to pay £106 or £114 a month, there is only one fault with that, YOU are the one that is wrong NOT me.

My estimated usage for 1 April to 15 October - the date I joined SP is £438. This is estimated using an average of the same period over the last 4 years plus 10% to allow for fluctuations.

Payments for the same period will be £585.90
The £92 I owe plus the estimated usage is, 92+438=530 leaving me with a credit of £55 on my account. As this includes a 10% variation which is unlikely to be the case, my actual credit balance is more liable to be in the region of £100. Further more my summer on summer usage has for the last 3 years dropped every year, due to energy saving measures we have taken. It will be less again this summer due to further implemented saving measures we have added and more efficient household items now being used.

No matter how you want to cut it at the end of my 1st year my account will be in credit and my payments will have remained static at £97.65. This proves my point that the payments are set correctly.

At the end of the day, it is my money not the energy companies and it is much better off in my pocket than theirs. If that makes me special, or privelaged for refusing to play by their rules then so be it.

I believe I have more than covered everything here, so again Nada666, don't accuse someone of something until you have the full facts. As this is a public forum, I will post whatever I like but unlike you I can substantuate my argument, which is my payments are set correctly at £97.65.

Thank you

Simon7685

Nada666 wrote: »

[It is getting really tiresome all these annoying brats cluttering the forum with their "ooh, I'm special, I'm privileged, I should not have to adhere to the rules" posts.]

It is a public forum and if I wish to clutter it up I will, if you don't like it don't read it.

If my experiences help just one person to challenge an energy company when they get their payments unfairly increased, then it is worth it.

As for being an annoying brat, I have 3 words for you.......
POT
KETTLE
BLACK

Have a nice day!

Kernel_Sanders

Nada666 wrote: »

[It is getting really tiresome all these annoying brats cluttering the forum with their "ooh, I'm special, I'm privileged, I should not have to adhere to the rules" posts.]

What a hypocrite you are. The only person breaking the rules here is you as you are not allowed to call other members abusive names.
Furthermore, I'm quite sure the OP's calculations are correct and I hope his stance prompts others to stand up to these ridiculous hikes in DD payments. This is the reason I now pay the traditional way, so I am nearly always in debit, but there is no problem as I pay on time. It should be obvious that the companies are simply trying to decrease their borrowing costs at the expense of customers and for the benefit of shareholders.

Nada666

No, I am not incorrect. The zero point is March/April it is not the anniversary of when you first joined - that is an anachronistic model that most suppliers have abandoned. Of course you are expected to be in credit eleven months of the year. If you are not happy with this then do not pay by direct debit.

And it is absolutely wrong to include next winter's warm home discount in the figures - if you pay £10.83 less per month then you will not have the freedom to use extra if needed. The whole point of the discount is to allow 'vulnerable' customers the freedom to switch on heating over winter without fear - if they have already all spent their discounts by paying lower debits then that defeats the whole purpose. The fact that you are able to budget is neither here nor there - the WHD should only be accounted for after it has been credited.

You should be paying £18.50 extra this year - that is more than £116 per month.

Nada666

Kernel_Sanders wrote: »

What a hypocrite you are. The only person breaking the rules here is you as you are not allowed to call other members abusive names.

No, he is breaking the agreement for paying by direct debit. His instalments have not been unfairly increased.