Natwest Mastercard - overzealous security and expensive abroad

whitfies

Hi,
I just wanted to share my experience with Natwest Mastercards and see if anyone else has the same issues.

Firstly, I have had Natwest cards for over 20 years along with all my bank accounts with Natwest. I log onto one website and see cards and accounts all in one place - this is great. I also have been earning Natwest YourPoints and recently redeemed enough to pay for a return flight to Rio - again great.

Not so great is that each time I go abroad (4 - 6 times a year), my first transaction is always declined even when I call them beforehand to say I'm going away, and where I'm going. This has been an issue when I'm somewhere I don't speak the language, and when I've been security aware and not taken any other cards out or my mobile phone.

I then have to make an international call going through many options and waiting in queues, speak to someone, go through security, on hold waiting for the 'fraud' team and repeat. All time consuming, frustrating and costly. They unblock and then all subsequent transactions in that country are all fine.

I asked Natwest if they could stop this happening everytime and they say no. I can't believe that people who travel more than me would put up with their first overseas transactions being blocked for legitimate use, and then going through a 15 min call to resolve - not always easy when you might not take your phone out or have a phone signal.

Additionally, I notice that they have changed the way they bill foreign currency transactions - these used to be simply converted to sterling at a reasonable rate. Now, they are all converted but they separately and additionally levy a foreign transaction charge which is very costly (well over £100 on my recent 2 week holiday).

Finally, and back on the topic of blocking legitimate transactions, this weekend they blocked my wife paying for our weekly Tesco shop. Now, we pay roughly the same amount pretty much every week at Tesco on either Saturday or Sunday, but for reasons Natwest won't tell me, they thought this week's Tesco transaction looked a bit iffy and blocked it. This was nothing to do with being over limits - it had to be unlocked by the fraud team.

I challenged the lady quite hard about the logic of blocking the most obviously safe of all our transactions and she said it might be because there were other people suffering from fraudulent transactions with Tesco so they blocked ours too as a precaution!! It makes no sense!

It seems to me as though Natwest have taken their security way too far and are getting greedy with FX charges. I like the points and I like the fact it's integrated nicely with my bank accounts, but I'm at the point where I want to dump them. To add insult to injury, I can't find anyone to talk to who cares...not impressed given I must have spent well over half a million on Natwest Credit cards in my life!

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has a similar view of Natwest Cards.

grumbler

whitfies wrote: »

.....Not so great is that each time I go abroad (4 - 6 times a year), my first transaction is always declined even when I call them beforehand to say I'm going away, and where I'm going. ...
I asked Natwest if they could stop this happening everytime and they say no. I can't believe that people who travel more than me would put up with their first overseas transactions being blocked

They wouldn't. They would vote with their feet or have a couple of better cards for overseas use. It's far too high price to pay for a doubtful convenience of seeing everything in one place. Are all your savings in the same place as well?

Additionally, I notice that they have changed the way they bill foreign currency transactions - these used to be simply converted to sterling at a reasonable rate. Now, they are all converted but they separately and additionally levy a foreign transaction charge which is very costly (well over £100 on my recent 2 week holiday).

I am pretty sure that they only changed the way they show this in the statement. The rate has never been 'reasonable' and in fact was hiding the charge that is now being shown separately.

I challenged the lady quite hard about the logic of blocking the most obviously safe of all our transactions and she said it might be because there were other people suffering from fraudulent transactions with Tesco so they blocked ours too as a precaution!! It makes no sense!

Don't try finding sense in what stupid computers programmed by paranoid security department staff do. Have you ever heard of a black cat in a dark room?

smartpicture

Well be careful who you move to. My Capital One account gets blocked for fraud every time I use it for more than a few transactions on one day in this country.

bigadaj

You don't need to move just have appropriate cards for your needs. Overseas spending then look at the recommendations on here, I've got a Clarity card that I pretty much only use abroad and it's been great.

dalesrider

whitfies wrote: »

Hi,
I just wanted to share my experience with Natwest Mastercards and see if anyone else has the same issues.


Not so great is that each time I go abroad (4 - 6 times a year), my first transaction is always declined even when I call them beforehand to say I'm going away, and where I'm going. This has been an issue when I'm somewhere I don't speak the language, and when I've been security aware and not taken any other cards out or my mobile phone.

Normal process for most banks.
Fact you tell them, does not stop any check. It could still be fraud.
In Fact Brazil and people having fraud while they are there is a very regular fraud.

So watch out for Tecban ATM on your account.

whitfies wrote: »

I then have to make an international call going through many options and waiting in queues, speak to someone, go through security, on hold waiting for the 'fraud' team and repeat. All time consuming, frustrating and costly. They unblock and then all subsequent transactions in that country are all fine.

Well ask them to call you back.

whitfies wrote: »

I asked Natwest if they could stop this happening everytime and they say no. I can't believe that people who travel more than me would put up with their first overseas transactions being blocked for legitimate use, and then going through a 15 min call to resolve - not always easy when you might not take your phone out or have a phone signal.

Not going to happen.
They have to have security in place. I bet if you had fraud you would not be happy...

Advice is always take more than one card. Even a CC with the same bank may not hit a security check, when a debit card will. As the fraud patterns are diffrent.

whitfies wrote: »

Finally, and back on the topic of blocking legitimate transactions, this weekend they blocked my wife paying for our weekly Tesco shop. Now, we pay roughly the same amount pretty much every week at Tesco on either Saturday or Sunday, but for reasons Natwest won't tell me, they thought this week's Tesco transaction looked a bit iffy and blocked it. This was nothing to do with being over limits - it had to be unlocked by the fraud team.

I challenged the lady quite hard about the logic of blocking the most obviously safe of all our transactions and she said it might be because there were other people suffering from fraudulent transactions with Tesco so they blocked ours too as a precaution!! It makes no sense!

Fraud to Tesco is rife.....

Remember security does not work on YOUR spending. It works on known fraud spending patterns.
Something many people do not know...

whitfies wrote: »

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has a similar view of Natwest Cards.

No link to NW, but do work in fraud and have a sound knowledge of security checks/systems.


Never ceases to amaze me at the number of people who go oversea's and only take ONE card with them....
Then moan about a security check....
What would they do if they lost the card????

grumbler

dalesrider wrote: »

Normal process for most banks.
Fact you tell them, does not stop any check.
It could still be fraud.
In Fact Brazil and people having fraud while they are there is a very regular fraud.

Pretty often you assume that something is normal only because most banks do this.
Even ignoring the fact that most banks don't block the first transaction abroad actually, the fact that some bank keeps doing checks ignoring the information that the customer gave them doesn't make this procedure normal.
If the customer informed the bank that he was arriving to Brazil on the 10th it is extremely unlikely that the first Brazilian transaction on this day is fraudulent.
The fact is that the bank simply ignored what the customer told them. Probably because their rusty inflexible system doesn't allow making such adjustments in advance.

Well ask them to call you back.

You must be joking. And it costs almost the same to receive the calls abroad as to make them.

Fraud to Tesco is rife.....

Remember security does not work on YOUR spending. It works on known fraud spending patterns.
Something many people do not know...

And, unless it's some very big amount, what 'pattern' exactly does a normal Tesco transaction falls to? Why can't you admit that often they just block transactions randomly, without any pattern?

dzug1

grumbler wrote: »

? Why can't you admit that often they just block transactions randomly, without any pattern?

What would be the logic in blocking random transactions?

Just because you can't see a pattern doesn't mean there isn't one.

grumbler

dzug1 wrote: »

What would be the logic in blocking random transactions?

grumbler wrote: »

...Don't try finding sense in what stupid computers programmed by paranoid security department staff do. Have you ever heard of a black cat in a dark room?

dzug1 wrote: »

Just because you can't see a pattern doesn't mean there isn't one.

Fine, give me a clue then. Any ideas are welcome, even most crazy ones.
And don't forget that the only information the bank has is Tesco, the amount and the time. And that most likely it's chip&pin transaction.

chattychappy

If you look at some of my posts, I often post on this topic as most of my spend it foreign, mostly Asia.

The systems are relatively poor. You're talking about loosely connected networks in differing jurisdictions with different risks and regulatory environments. I think it's pretty great you can pitch up in a different country on the other side of the world, stick a card in an ATM or present it at a shop you've never been to before and it could work at all.

I generally use 3 cards abroad and have 3 or 4 backups "just in case". Over time I've developed my own sense of CC "blocking patterns". Eg I have a place in Taiwan. One particular card will always get blocked after using it in one particular shop I often use. NB the transaction goes through, but it then becomes blocked. Others cards are fine. So I never use that card in that shop. My PO card appears to unblock itself after a few days, others don't. Chip'n'pin transactions block less. My Nationwide Select card is the most reliable - only blocked once. My Santander Zero is fine for ATM withdrawals even if I use it day after day taking the maximum - but there again for a short period last year (and in multiple countries) it got blocked after every single withdrawal. If you tell them in advance, in my experience it makes no difference to whether it gets blocked. But it might make unblocking easier. Anyway I've long since stopped bothering. I've found Barclaycard the worst, not that I use it much because of the loading. My Barclaycard even gets blocked in the UK, other cards don't.

Front line staff never know how these systems work. As the systems become more sophisticated, so does the fraud - right from fibbing cardholders and dodgy blokes cloning cards through to insider fraud and actions by foreign government agencies (perceived or real). So no point trying to argue the Natwest. Just get another card. Loyalty counts for nothing - they have developed the systems the way they have, joined the networks in the way they have and run their business the way they choose. Just find a product that suits you better, there's loads of choice.

dalesrider

grumbler wrote: »

Pretty often you assume that something is normal only because most banks do this.
Even ignoring the fact that most banks don't block the first transaction abroad actually, the fact that some bank keeps doing checks ignoring the information that the customer gave them doesn't make this procedure normal.

How do you know, what most banks do?

Do you think the security system that has under 10 secs to make a decision is going to be able to read some notes about a customers account?

grumbler wrote: »

If the customer informed the bank that he was arriving to Brazil on the 10th it is extremely unlikely that the first Brazilian transaction on this day is fraudulent.
The fact is that the bank simply ignored what the customer told them. Probably because their rusty inflexible system doesn't allow making such adjustments in advance.

See above answer.
Bank see's fraud in Brazil = Bank blocks transaction in Brazil.

grumbler wrote: »

You must be joking. And it costs almost the same to receive the calls abroad as to make them.

Does it.... Plenty of people I speak to are more than happy for me to call them back.
Remember there are landlines overseas....

grumbler wrote: »

And, unless it's some very big amount, what 'pattern' exactly does a normal Tesco transaction falls to? Why can't you admit that often they just block transactions randomly, without any pattern?

The pattern falls into is the same one as you work too....:D

Fraudsters are creatures of habit. They use the same retailers, for similar amounts in the same spending pattern.

So forget about what abd who you spend at, as it makes no diffrence. If your spending hits the same pattern it will trigger a alert.

reclusive46

I've found cards generally get blocked in non-chip and pin countries a lot more (For obvious reasons) and If anyone is travelling to the USA I'd recommend they have an Amex for a backup, they are pretty much the only provider who doesn't seem to block transactions in the USA all the time.