Car Parking Partnership fine

stevowmt

Hello,

Im new to this so apologies if I do anything wrong!

I have today received a parking ticket for £85.00 (or £60.00 if paid within 14 days) for 'parking without a permit'. I have no permit but have been parked there for the last 2 weeks no problem, and there is no sign where I have parked stating I need a permit, but there is one at the main entrance where I drive in.

The company is called Car Parking Partnership and I was parked at Roehampton University.

I don't have the money to pay it, and was wondering what you all thought and what my options are. Is this a fine or an invoice? It says it is a Civil Parking Notice.

Thanks alot!

edward123

Well, its not a fine as only the council and the police can fine. So its an invoice, a parking charge notice.

You have three options.

First, pay it. But don't as there is no need to as its unenforceable as the amount of £85 or £60 amounts to a penalty and no private citizen or company can penalise another, such as you. There are other reasons of course.

Secondly, ignore it. Will probably work after receiving threats designed to frighten you into paying. When you don't they will go away.

Thirdly you can take the POPLA route. This means 'appealing'(has to be worded right) to the PPC who will reject it then you REALLY appeal(MUST be worded right) to POPLA and with the right defence(which you will be helped with here) your defence would be accepted and the ticket will be cancelled. This will cost you nothing, the PPC £27 + VAT and end the matter relatively quickly.

This PPC seems to have 'broken' the BPA AOS code of giving you less the 40% reduction if paid within their stated time. £85 less 40% is £51 not their £60!

stevowmt

Hello, thanks fpr the reply!

I think, after what you have said, that I wont pay it, and just ignore it. Do they have any power to send debt collectors? I know its a bit premature to talk about it, but better to check!

Finally, its intersting what you say about the 40%, however I have checked and they are not a member of the BPA.

Does this make a difference?

Thanks again,

Steve

PaulJM

Don't pay it, have a good look round these threads.

They will eventually get debt collectors to write to you, but they've got no more right to take your money or stuff than I have. Only court bailiffs can do that, and that's if you don't pay a court.

They'll pursue you for 6 months and get increasingly threatening, then go away.

Even if they would evert ake anyone to court, it's not a criminal offence, so they'd have to work out what you've caused them to lose in a small claim court....they can't even really charge you for any legal help they get, and you wouldn't need it, so please, I recommend you get all the info you ned from here, and relax.

pogofish

They are on the AOS list - Check the entry for "Liberty Printers"

So you need to do an "appeal" to them, the go the POPLA route once they give you the code. See the stickies on how to do that. If POPLA goes against you, don't worry, its not binding on you, so you can ignore that.

In order to send debt collectors after you, they need to take you to a proper court, win and you fail to pay the judgement in time. I don't think anyone has ever turned-up evidence of CPP taking anyone to court, never mind the rest, so you can stop worrying!

Umkomaas

stevowmt wrote: »

Hello, thanks fpr the reply!

I think, after what you have said, that I wont pay it, and just ignore it. Do they have any power to send debt collectors? I know its a bit premature to talk about it, but better to check!

Finally, its intersting what you say about the 40%, however I have checked and they are not a member of the BPA.

Does this make a difference?

Thanks again,

Steve

Steve

They are members of BPA Approved Operator Scheme (AOS) - check them out under Liberty Printers (T/A CPP) - just part of the smoke and mirrors endemic in the parking industry (industry - a further misnomer!!).

As BPA AOS members they can access your details from DVLA on the 'down side', but on the 'up side' they now have to strictly comply with the BPA Code of Practice.

Well, they've already come unstuck at the first hurdle in terms of the 40% discount for early settlement. I'm sure there'll be plenty more where that's come from. You could do a bit of research in terms of where there may be failings by reading and checking against the following:

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/fighting-parking-tickets/

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/BPA_CodeofPractice_2012_v2_March2013.pdf

Check dates of receipt of letters against the BPA CoP timetable - if they don't tie in, then it's pretty much game over for the PPC.

After your research come back on with the issues you've turned up and there'll be more advice for you from the regular experts.

First and foremost don't be bounced into paying anything. HTH

Coupon-mad

stevowmt wrote: »

Hello, thanks fpr the reply!

I think, after what you have said, that I wont pay it, and just ignore it. Do they have any power to send debt collectors? I know its a bit premature to talk about it, but better to check!

Finally, its intersting what you say about the 40%, however I have checked and they are not a member of the BPA.

Does this make a difference?

Thanks again,

Steve

Have a look now at the letters shown in the OLD pre-Oct link in the 'PPC letter chains' sticky thread, for a preview.

Just to warn you that CPP's debt collector letters are among the worst in terms of intimidating wording and misleading paragraphs about them being about to send the boys round. They can't do that and the letters probably breach the OFT debt collector guidance but they don't care. I think the letters are from PS&P but you will see them on the PPC letter chains thread. They are not bailiffs, we are not talking about personal visits, only letters.

I should say as well that we actually don't generally recommend the ignore route because some PPCs have surprised us with a few (rare) real small claims papers which have then had to be defended. All too much hassle IMHO and all aimed at ignorers I think. Why ignore when you can crush it?!

Most regulars here now tend to recommend the POPLA route - so don't discount appealing/challenging the fake PCN when you get the Notice to Keeper (NTK) in the post. And don't think 'well what can I appeal on?' in fact a winning appeal is not worded as you'd think! Check out the POPLA decisions thread, first or second sticky on the thread list. I fully expect CPP would come a cropper if faced with POPLA - bearing in mind how bad their letters are generally - and the decision isn't binding on you so if CPP actually win at POPLA you just revert to ignore mode!

Don't challenge now, wait to see if a NTK arrives - partly because I don't recall seeing a compliant one yet! Gives you more ammo for winning at POPLA, as most people now do when they get forum help to word that challenge. Keep all letters (and envelopes too if they've been posted later than the date of the letter inside - another point for POPLA).

It would be good to see how CPP muck up a POPLA challenge response - which costs them money only to see you win and the fake PCN cancelled!

stevowmt

Wow everyone thanks alot for your answers. All very helpful and I didnt expect so many!

So, as a summary, do I...

Ignore the notice until I receive a letter from them

Then, if i receive a letter, I send a letter to the company, then appeal to the POPLA?

I read through the links posted and the obvious stand out problem on their part is the 40% thing.

Thanks again Steve

Coupon-mad

stevowmt wrote: »

Wow everyone thanks alot for your answers. All very helpful and I didnt expect so many!

So, as a summary, do I...

Ignore the notice until I receive a letter from them

Then, if i receive a letter, I send a letter to the company, then appeal to the POPLA?

I read through the links posted and the obvious stand out problem on their part is the 40% thing.

Thanks again Steve

Yes that's the plan, but get help with the POPLA appeal wording as there is more to it than that. See the POPLA decisions thread near the top of the forum and you'll see most of them recently have been won on the fact that PPCs don't like showing POPLA their contracts!

But the lack of 40% discount is a breach worth citing too...hopefully one of many you will find against the BPA Code of Practice (find it on the BPA website). It's one of the main reasons to wait for the Notice to Keeper, to let them dog their own holes and fail a bit more.

Doesn't matter too much what you say in your appeal to the PPC but if you want us to see your draft of that email/letter, then do post your draft here when you get the NTK, and post all pages of the NTK here too so we can pick holes in it!

You do get a lot of replies and help on this forum - it's busy because we've all had fake PCNs ourselves and want to expose this whole industry for the scam it is.

stevowmt

Hello again guys...

RE the above parking fine.

I today received a letter in the post from the CPP. (attached is the picture of it)

Could anyone kindly advise me of the next step(s) i should take.

Thanks again, Steve

[IMG]httz://tinypic.com/r/jpvm10/5[/IMG]

REPLACE THE HTTZ WITH HTTP, thanks.

Coupon-mad

A standard template, does it have any wording on the back?

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=jpvm10&s=5

Same as shown here, same advice applies:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=80026

Send a challenge written in the third person, from yourself as the registered keeper but not saying nor implying who was driving. Stroma has posted examples on loads of threads of a simple version 'first challenge'.

Read the 'POPLA decisions' thread (top of forum) and the Parking Prankster's blog linked there. So far he has got lots of POPLA appeals in and has won both decided so far - but you MUST read what he used as his first appeals in the two cases so far!