Buyer claiming and didnt I allow them collect

chancesare_2

onetwothree123 wrote: »

I am unable to copy a link but have a BBC news article from 2 years ago and the advice is pretty well the same, Paypal favour the buyer, when there is no evidence a sale took place.

How can paypal favour someone when no sale has taken place?

onetwothree123 wrote: »

BBC news from 2011....

PayPal has warned that anyone selling goods on eBay should not let the buyer come to the house to collect them.


The online payment group told BBC Radio 4's You And Yours that sellers would be left without the protection of a postage receipt if anything should go wrong.


Michael Harbron had not used eBay for years, but when he wanted to sell his computer, he decided to give it another go. He put his iMac on the online auction site and was happy to achieve his goal of £700. The necessary PayPal details were supplied and all seemed "legit", in Michael's words.To make things even more convenient, the successful bidder wanted to pick up the computer in person. As they had spoken a few times on the phone, Michael was not suspicious when the bidder called later on to say a friend would pick it up instead."Whilst his friend was in transit, the money went into my PayPal account. Everything seemed normal," he said.


"Then his friend turned up. Something seemed a bit shady in hindsight, but he left with the computer. Then, about an hour later, I got an email from PayPal to say that the money had been reversed."


Michael had lost the computer plus the £700.


"It was crazy. Someone came to my house and stole an item out of my hands."

Unfortunately for Michael, PayPal would not compensate him, partly because there was no evidence of a sale.



If Michael had posted the items, there would have been a crucial postal receipt.



PayPal's commercial director, Rich Ambrose, told You And Yours that it was actually PayPal that had reversed the payment because it was under the impression that the buyer had been defrauded, not Michael.


The buyer had contacted PayPal to say he had not authorised the payment.
Mr Ambrose said: "Posting by track delivery means that a seller is eligible for protection and cover if anything goes wrong. And if buyers insist on collecting items in person, sellers should beware of quick pick-ups within an hour or two.
"That's often a sign that a fraudster is trying to beat our systems and get hold of items before we flag up that something is wrong."

The advise has always been thus. Tracking to the paypal address with a signature if the value is £150 or more, is what is needed.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It is on the transaction page, the email when the buyer pays, it really couldn't be more clear.

onetwothree123

I agree that you are a scammers dream if you are going to by-pass the Paypal T&C they wont listen, and anyone who takes a Paypal payment for a pick up in person of a highly sought after Apple or expensive tablet or computer item is really a bit of a choob!

Paypal will rarely consider reversing the decision on appeal but ONLY if you have the funds to employ the service of a very good lawyer who can write a letter to Paypal and that with the police crime referance number they call it GOODWILL and could be persuaded to reverse the negative balance, Paypal take into account the sellers previous eBay sellers standing and sales etc up until this incident.

I am only going by what is on Google reading other peoples accounts of being scammed , easy to do it just send someone you know who says "I dont really know what am here for ma brother said some computer to be picked up, ah dunno..." and act all coy!

Collecting signatures on carbon paper, photos or possible cctv of of car reggy plates, description of who came, taking a photo of them beside it I was PMSL at these "I took a pic of the man, and he signed my little guestbook" the computer and the money at paypal are long gone and a pic of someones random siggy holds no water in paypals court! Idiots.

Some humorous ones in there, watching too much telly police undercover shows, you sell an item and post it to an address and keep the SD receipt for at least 180 days! End of.

Seller should have read the terms at paypal but they didnt and this is typical, weeping after the event the items long gone. Probably been sold on by now.

RFW

Given how the claim is worded, ie 'seller never allowed collection' if there is a message thread, either through Ebay or email that can be forwarded to Paypal/Ebay. If there is some evidence that the buyer is a liar and if something similar has happened before it could work in the seller's favour.
I'm sure Paypal don't want to be giving money back to fraudsters, though they are often left with little choice.

soolin

RFW wrote: »

Given how the claim is worded, ie 'seller never allowed collection' if there is a message thread, either through Ebay or email that can be forwarded to Paypal/Ebay. If there is some evidence that the buyer is a liar and if something similar has happened before it could work in the seller's favour.
I'm sure Paypal don't want to be giving money back to fraudsters, though they are often left with little choice.

That's why I think this scum bag knew what he was doing. He isn't saying he was expecting it to be sent, so if seller provides the emails showing that collection was agreed the buyer merely stands by the claim that this never went ahead.

This is a rather vicious variation and closes any hope that seller might be able to harrass paypal into a goodwill gesture based on the fact that a false claim for INR has been opened, when they have an email thread that showed they were expecting a collection.

RFW

soolin wrote: »

That's why I think this scum bag knew what he was doing. He isn't saying he was expecting it to be sent, so if seller provides the emails showing that collection was agreed the buyer merely stands by the claim that this never went ahead.

This is a rather vicious variation and closes any hope that seller might be able to harrass paypal into a goodwill gesture based on the fact that a false claim for INR has been opened, when they have an email thread that showed they were expecting a collection.

It depends on the standing of the buyer and the seller. It couldn't happen to me, but I'd like to think my Ebay status would have some bearing on a claim by someone who'd never bought anything before.

alykatz

RFW wrote: »

It depends on the standing of the buyer and the seller. It couldn't happen to me, but I'd like to think my Ebay status would have some bearing on a claim by someone who'd never bought anything before.

Ebay standing has nothing whatsoever to do with a claim. Just because a buyer has no fb and a seller has a large amount unless the seller has postage proof there is nothing paypal will do .

soolin

RFW wrote: »

It depends on the standing of the buyer and the seller. It couldn't happen to me, but I'd like to think my Ebay status would have some bearing on a claim by someone who'd never bought anything before.

I really don't think standing has anything to do with it. If this was the other way round and seller was a scammer, I would not like to think that I could lose a genuine claim, despite having fully buyer protection, just because the hacked account looked better than mine.

If there was any suggestion that a buyer lost buyer protection against a 'big' seller I think we would all be only buying from new sellers.

onetwothree123

I actually am glad Paypal are strict about this in their protection system, if you do everything they say, you will never be claimed against, cos when a case is opened against you, to counter claim, the seller is asked to produce the vital postage receipt scanned into the notes.

Of course, as my other post said quoting the Paypal boss, they hear of this scam every other day, and couldnt afford to do refunds to everyone- cos in some cases, a SELLER could be a liar too, and am sure some sellers dont open their doors after being paid , and DO rob people so it works two ways! (would be daft to do this from you own address, but not unknown)

You must always adhere to the tracking number principle without a tracking number showing delivery to the address Paypal gave, you are goosed! It's CASH only for collection in person items.

The problem is, people who commit theses online crimes know exactly what they are doing- naive /ignorant people who sell items for collect in person using Paypal ,don't!

sham63

When you sell tickets on Ebay you get a big warning text-box on the summary page before you list.

Why don't Ebay do the same whenever someone ticks the 'collection' option during the listing process - a similar 'warning' pop-up saying that you should not accept Paypal if the item is being collected by the winning bidder?

vuvuzela

sham63 wrote: »

When you sell tickets on Ebay you get a big warning text-box on the summary page before you list.

Why don't Ebay do the same whenever someone ticks the 'collection' option during the listing process - a similar 'warning' pop-up saying that you should not accept Paypal if the item is being collected by the winning bidder?

2 reasons.
1: The number of scammers on eBay are vastly outnumbered by the number of genuine buyers.
2: They own paypal so they get their cut.