Court success thread

JPears

Great result. I hope they pay up promptly and don't force you to use Sherifs

glentoran99

shell69 wrote: »

Well I've finally had justice against United after nearly a year of being fobbed off. A party of 8 of us (including 2 disabled teenagers) were delayed 7 hours going from Heathrow to Newark April 2014.

Played letter / email ping pong with United for a number of months where they kept changing their mind about the cause for the delay, until we decided enough was enough and started the court process. Turns out United's defence was claiming extraordinary circumstances for a knock on effect from a weather based delay the previous day. Unfortunately having read the main site before the forum I applied to the CAA who agreed with United, although we still soldiered on.

During the process United were constantly late sending in forms, didn't send a bundle of docs (emailed 3 A4 pages of airport stats) and then didn't turn up to court today.

A very nice judge who had read our bundle (and could see how much work had gone into it) talked us through our side and could see we had tried to settle amicably. She was not happy that United hadn't made any efforts along the way, said that extraordinary circumstances didn't apply - even if the weather was affecting our flight and they should have been able to make other alternatives.

Upshot is she settled in our favour for the full amount (4800 euros) + interest at 8%, parking, postage and mileage.

Another victory for the little people (although still have to see the money yet!)

Many thanks to all of this regulars who have advised me along this process, but in particular to Vauban and his guide without whom I wouldn't have known what a bundle was let alone where to start with it.

Thats an interesting point, Wonder if any other judges would think that way and we could see pay outs for weather related incidents that are usually extraordinary circumstances

shell69_2

glentoran99 wrote: »

Thats an interesting point, Wonder if any other judges would think that way and we could see pay outs for weather related incidents that are usually extraordinary circumstances

Yep it was interesting as she actually said extraordinary circumstances would have to be something like the volcanic ash clouds and airlines should be able to cope with any weather. Obviously I was happy to take that although I don't think I would have been brave enough to fight it if the weather was delaying my actual flight and not the one before it!!

I'm hoping the sheriffs don't have to get involved too J D Pears!! Think I may drop United a little line so they're expecting the judgement - I may be a tad smug!!

JPears

Remember there is the second test/hurdle the airline must clear even if weather is an EC - they must take all reasonable measures upto intolerable sacrifice to reduce/minimise any delay/cancellation/denied boarding. This so far to my knowledge, has never really been forced in court cases.

Vauban

JPears wrote: »

Remember there is the second test/hurdle the airline must clear even if weather is an EC - they must take all reasonable measures upto intolerable sacrifice to reduce/minimise any delay/cancellation/denied boarding. This so far to my knowledge, has never really been forced in court cases.

The "Wallentin Third Question" ... take a bow!

glentoran99

Vauban wrote: »

The "Wallentin Third Question" ... take a bow!

You must be very proud of all your pupils Vauban

NoviceAngel

I haven't a clue what either of them are talking about, but I'll take a bow anyway.....

shell 69, Congrats on your success and also congrats on the realisation that your case was effectively a knock on, so it doesn't matter whether the previous flight was an EC or not, YOUR flight was not subject to one...

'Airlines should be able to cope with the weather' Isn't it a shame that wasn't said in the SC or even the CoA?

Anyway, What you spending your windfall on ?

Cheers,

NoviceAngel

shell69_2

Thanks Noviceangel - believe it or not we're going to put ourselves at the mercy of the airlines again and return to New York to catch up on what we missed last time. Probably not with United this time though.....!

JPears

glentoran99 wrote: »

You must be very proud of all your pupils Vauban

Vauban and myself are long time, strong supporters of the "3rd Way" for young Padawans
Novice - from Vauban's guide -
"4.4 This question of whether, or in what circumstances, technical problems could be considered “extraordinary” (and thus exempt the airline from the need to pay compensation) was considered by the European Court in late 2009 in the Wallentin-Hermann v Alitalia case. This judgment set a clear test for airlines, which was that the cause of the technical failure had to be “not inherent in the ordinary exercise of the activity of the carrier and beyond the actual control of that carrier on account of its nature or origin”. In practice most independent experts concluded that the Wallentin judgment effectively ruled that delays and cancellations caused by technical failures were not exempt from the requirement to pay compensation.
4.5 The Wallentin judgment also concluded that, even in the case of “extraordinary circumstances”, the airline should have to demonstrate that “even if it had deployed all its resources in terms of staff or equipment and the financial means at its disposal, it would clearly not have been able – unless it had made intolerable sacrifices – to prevent the extraordinary circumstances with which it was confronted from leading to the cancellation [and subsequently delay] of the flight”. This sets a high bar for the airlines, so understanding how the airline responded to your issue – ie whether they really did try to deploy all their resources, as quickly as possible – is often also relevant to your legal case."

Lanmar

Hi everybody,

I have had my claim rejected by Swiss airlines and then by the CAA (Basically because Swiss Airlines told the CAA a reason for the delay to the one which they told me. As I have a record of the emails I believe I have a legitimate claim.
My problem is finding the registered office of Swiss Airlines in the UK where I can serve the summons. Their web site quotes a ticket desk in Heathrow. I have tried a search on the internet but nothing comes up. Can anybody suggest a way to find this out

Thank you.