How does a PhD make you a better worker than someone without one?

Dithering_Dad

I've just stumbled across this thread and have read the first page, but as it's now 17 pages long there's no way I'll be ploughing through it so apologies if the thread has now "moved on" or the message in my post has been stated before...

I have worked for a lot of really large employers such as IBM, Accenture, KPMG, EDS who all love to employ PHD students because it looks great in their promotional literature (so many PHD qualified employees, blah, blah). Generally speaking to get into these companies you have to have at least a degree (Accenture minimum was a 2i) so all employees pretty much had the "soft skills" required to do research, write papers, etc.

What I found though was that the extra 3 years people spent on their PHDs was pretty much wasted because while they were off researching an obscure part of a highly specialised subject, their peers were picking up additional skills such as effective presenting, client facing skills, project management, etc, etc while in the workplace.

Having worked three years within, say IBM, the 1st class honours student would be pushing for a management or supervisory role whereas the PHDer is just out of college and on the first rung of the ladder. The PHDers may have a better starting salary than newly qualified degree students, but were far behind their peers who completed their degrees at the same time.

EDIT: I had only made half my point before I had to rush off to a meeting, so I'll continue now

The first part was the "con", now here is the "pro". A PHD is obviously invaluable if you are going to work in a pure research field, where your peer group is similarly educated. Past experience has shown me that not only do people with degrees end up doing something completely different in their careers than what they studied, but people with PHDs also end up doing something different too.

I guess for many people, a PHD is a little like running a marathon - you don't run it because you need to get somewhere that's 26 miles away, you'd drive - it's easier! You do a marathon as a challenge and as an accomplishment and I think some people do PHDs for exactly the same reason. To be honest, what's wrong with striving to do the very best you can?

melancholly

peterbaker wrote: »

Now I discover from these threads that perhaps there are now hoards of PhDs

please please please - this thread is not about their being lots of phds - i said this a few pages back already - it's about phil being pretty rude and trying to make out that someone else's achievement in getting a phd wasn't really worth much. this is just an extension of that discussion after the thread was (rightly) closed. no-one thinks that a phd will guarentee a job, not even those of us (like me) studying for one! but i do think that trying to dismiss the work involved in a phd is unecessary (and in the context of a congratulations thread it was entirely inappropriate). whether it gets you further up a career ladder isn't the issue - this thread was started to try (yet again) to get lots of people to say that academic background isn't everything to someone who has spent all their time on here instead of working on their actual degree - when we've all been saying it for months!

Nelski

peterbaker wrote: »

There's no doubt. Studentphil is real enough.

There's also no doubt that his most vociferous critics operating in ugly packs that they grandly call teams are also all too real.

!

and with your post count I would suspect you are going through the "be nice to phil and be shocked at everyone for being nasty" phase - :rotfl: it wont last.................have you seen the wonderful Cushions thread btw?

melancholly

cushions thread?! i'm scared to ask!

Nelski

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=459512

on second thought melancholly im sure you have things far better to do with your time than read this - any fluff to remove from your belly button? toenails that need filing...............:D

melancholly

Nelski wrote: »

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=459512

on second thought melancholly im sure you have things far better to do with your time than read this - any fluff to remove from your belly button? toenails that need filing...............:D

i managed 40 posts then decided it really isn't worth it!!
going to finish things off at work and go home to a bottle of wine instead.....!

elona

Nelski

Please do not mention toenails!!!!

It brings back awful memories of when he had a thread asking if it was usual for his mum still to be cutting his toenails!:eek:

tr3mor

peterbaker wrote: »

There's no doubt. Studentphil is real enough.

There's also no doubt that his most vociferous critics operating in ugly packs that they grandly call teams are also all too real.

Of all the posts I've read in these threads associated with the lynching of studentphil, Bamber19's is by far the most honest and thoughtful response.

Phil has posted 13,000 posts in 11 months, the vast majority of which have been him making whiny excuses for not working hard enough at uni.

Is it any wonder that people keep telling him to shut up?

studentphil

I do accept that they can result in good careers for some peopleif they have a gift for selling and business.

I do not think sales and banking is where my skills are to be honest so it would not result in any career for me. I am not sure a call centre wants someone who wants to work and improve things for people.

I do work very hard at uni and I have always given everything to essays to make them as good and original as I can.

Hapless_2

studentphil wrote: »

I do not think sales and banking is where my skills are to be honest so it would not result in any career for me.

well you don't know until you try

studentphil wrote: »

I am not sure a call centre wants someone who wants to workand improve things for people.

So people in call centres do not work?

Stop setting your damned sights to high. start at the bottom and work your way up, if you are not prepared to do that then you have basically no hope.
Very few people walk into a £20,000 a year job these days.
There are plenty of jobs to do, try data entry, filing, and general office work. Reception work (if you can't do that then you won't be able to work in a library)etc. There are thousands of graduates and post-grads out there doing jobs that are nothing to do with the degrees they took. Everything from working a market stall to cleaning toilets.

Whenever someone gives you advice, you always have an excuse. it's either..."I'm not qualified" or "I can't do that" or "That's not what I wanted to do" or " I wouldn't know how to do that" or "It won't pay enough".
Try those excuses down the jobcentre and see what happens!