UKCPS parking fine

nigelbb

The wording to use when contacting them after day 35 without response is

Dear PPC
There has been no response from you regarding my challenge to your claimed parking charge since the challenge was submitted 35 days ago. Since I have not received a rejection of my challenge accompanied with the required code to take my case to POPLA in that time as per the BOA CoP I can only conclude that you have accepted my appeal and cancelled the charge. I will not enter into any other correspondence on this matter.
Yours
Not A Mug

Guys_Dad

nigelbb wrote: »

The wording to use when contacting them after day 35 without response is

Dear PPC
There has been no response from you regarding my challenge to your claimed parking charge since the challenge was submitted 35 days ago. Since I have not received a rejection of my challenge accompanied with the required code to take my case to POPLA in that time as per the BOA CoP I can only conclude that you have accepted my appeal and cancelled the charge. I will not enter into any other correspondence on this matter.
Yours
Not A Mug

I disagree with Stroma and you on this tactic.
As I have previously posted on other threads, their offer to supply you with a POPLA form and code if you want one is both BPA and POPLA compliant.

It is not that I agree with their approach or that it is in the spirit of the arrangement, but the wording on both BPA and POPLA web sites allow them to do this.

So I would not waste the opportunity to go to POPLA by not taking them up on their offer.

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Guys_Dad wrote: »

I disagree with Stroma and you on this tactic.
As I have previously posted on other threads, their offer to supply you with a POPLA form and code if you want one is both BPA and POPLA compliant.

It is not that I agree with their approach or that it is in the spirit of the arrangement, but the wording on both BPA and POPLA web sites allow them to do this.

So I would not waste the opportunity to go to POPLA by not taking them up on their offer.

I have to agree with you guys dad, not ideal but are allowed to do this

nigelbb

I strongly disagree with Guys Dad & kirkbyinfurnesslad. The obligation put on the PPC by the CoP after they reject a challenge is not merely to inform the unsuccessful appellant that they will send POPLA info on request. The PPC must do something active to actually allow the appellant to make an appeal to POPLA

22.12 If you reject a challenge you must:
• tell the driver how to make an appeal to POPLA. This
includes providing a template ‘notice of appeal’ form, or
a link to the appropriate website for lodging an appeal

A template ‘notice of appeal’ form must necessarily include the verification code for POPLA & providing a 'link to the appropriate website for lodging an appeal' also requires they send the code as no appeal is accepted without that code.

In this case the PPC hasn't even satisfied the first part of 22.12 by informing the OP how to appeal let alone satisfied the second part by providing the means necessary to make that appeal which must include a verification code for POPLA.

Guys_Dad

Regrettably, Nigel, that is only half the picture.

Remembering that POPLA are the 'court' so to speak, their web site will take precedence if any discrepancy between theirs and the BPA and theirs has the following

A verification code will be sent by the operator with the rejection of your representations. You will need the verification code to appeal online. If you were not sent this, the operator should be contacted to obtain one. You must appeal to POPLA within the 28 days.

Now that seems pretty clear and unambiguous and puts the onus on the motorist.

nigelbb

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Regrettably, Nigel, that is only half the picture.

Remembering that POPLA are the 'court' so to speak, their web site will take precedence if any discrepancy between theirs and the BPA and theirs has the following

A verification code will be sent by the operator with the rejection of your representations. You will need the verification code to appeal online. If you were not sent this, the operator should be contacted to obtain one. You must appeal to POPLA within the 28 days.

Now that seems pretty clear and unambiguous and puts the onus on the motorist.

Whatever the POPLA website says the PPC is still in breach of the CoP by not actively facilitating the motorist's appeal to POPLA. If it said in the CoP

22.12 If you reject a challenge you must:
• tell the driver how to make an appeal to POPLA. This
includes providing a template ‘notice of appeal’ form, or
a link to the appropriate website for lodging an appeal on request

then I would agree with you but it doesn't. The onus is on the PPC to provide the means to appeal to POPLA without any further intervention on the part of the motorist.

Given PPC's normal ethical standards the statement on the POPLA website is a not unsurprising piece of advice that if the PPC through an 'oversight' has forgotten to provide a verification code then the appellant needs to request one as the appeal cannot progress without it.

Guys_Dad

nigelbb wrote: »

Whatever the POPLA website says the PPC is still in breach of the CoP by not actively facilitating the motorist's appeal to POPLA.
The onus is on the PPC to provide the means to appeal to POPLA without any further intervention on the part of the motorist.

Given PPC's normal ethical standards the statement on the POPLA website is a not unsurprising piece of advice that if the PPC through an 'oversight' has forgotten to provide a verification code then the appellant needs to request one as the appeal cannot progress without it.

By the time it gets to POPLA, the POPLA rules take precedence over BPA. Are POPLA going to say "You are right. Our web site is wrong and misleading"? I suspect not.

So, next step after the 35 days and letter telling PPC they missed the boat, if you follow the "timed-out" strategy? PPC either goes to court or gives up. If it gets to court, no point in motorist saying PPC failed to follow POPLA rules. All they have to do is say "I followed them. Read here. I offered to supply POPLA form and code. Motorist failed to request them".

So any immediate dismissal of case on PPC not following procedure would not happen and case would proceed on merits.

Meanwhile, motorist has missed chance to go to POPLA.

As I said, people should be very careful of relying on the "timed-out" strategy and if they have a reasonable case, should get the form and number to appeal to POPLA.

nigelbb

There are no POPLA rules at least none that are published. What's on their website is indicative but not exhaustive or definitive. The BPA CoP however is a published code of rules that the PPC signs up to & must adhere to. If they don't comply then POPLA upholds appeals on the grounds that the PPC did not comply with the CoP.

Also I think that you missed the point I was making. I wasn't saying that if you get no response then just ignore it all & after 35 days post challenge you are in the clear. I suggested writing a final message to the PPC stating that as they are in breach of the CoP by not providing a POPLA code that the assumption must be that they have accepted the challenge. The only possible response from the PPC to contradict that assumption is to provide a POPLA code. If they don't they are doubly in breach of the CoP and the 'rules' on the POPLA website.

Coupon-mad

nigelbb wrote: »

There are no POPLA rules at least none that are published. What's on their website is indicative but not exhaustive or definitive. The BPA CoP however is a published code of rules that the PPC signs up to & must adhere to. If they don't comply then POPLA upholds appeals on the grounds that the PPC did not comply with the CoP.

Also I think that you missed the point I was making. I wasn't saying that if you get no response then just ignore it all & after 35 days post challenge you are in the clear. I suggested writing a final message to the PPC stating that as they are in breach of the CoP by not providing a POPLA code that the assumption must be that they have accepted the challenge. The only possible response from the PPC to contradict that assumption is to provide a POPLA code. If they don't they are doubly in breach of the CoP and the 'rules' on the POPLA website.

It's a very useful discussion - I tend to agree with you, nigel. :T

Stroma

I also agree with Nigel on this, the motorist is reliant on the parking company to provide the information on popla, it's unfair to assume that this person has Internet access, knows about popla to begin with , and knows what the bpa is. This is why a standard sheet should be forced to be sent out with each rejection that gives information on popla.

It also should have on the fake ticket that an appeal to an independent body is possible and what's it's name, and where you can get further advice, like popla and I grit my teeth maybe CAB as most people know about that.