Do I pay for travel time?

cobbingstones

Hello

I was informed today by one of my staff that I should be paying for their time to travel from job to another within the working day. I run a cleaning business and they usually have 4 to 5 different jobs per day. I pay well over the minimum wage (£8 per hour for the cleaners and £9 for the supervisor). Who is right?

Thanks you

Southend1

Not sure on the legal position, but morally of course you should pay them.

Southend1

PS good on you for paying a living wage (assuming outside London).

dacouch

Southend1 wrote: »

PS good on you for paying a living wage (assuming outside London).

Not so great if they're spending 2 hours a day driving (Unpaid) between jobs especially if they're using their own vehicles or using public transport

Savvy_Sue

Whether you are obliged to pay them for their travel time depends on what it says in their terms and conditions. And it's not at all uncommon for companies providing home care NOT to pay for travel time, and not to pay mileage either. I don't know how common it is for the same to apply to cleaners: most I've known have been fully self-employed.

Are your cleaners on 'zero hours' contracts, ie you pay them for the hours they work, rather than guaranteeing a set no. of hours each week? If so, there are a couple of things you might want to think about. While that suits some people very well - because they can turn down hours - it's not so good for those who need a regular income. You could have a mix of 'regular' and 'as and when' staff if that would help you manage a fluctuating workflow. And you know you have to pay holiday pay, even for 'zero hours' contracts, don't you?

If you were paying for travel time, it would obviously be in your interests to plan their routes carefully and group jobs sensibly.

Also, it's worth YOU knowing the answers to these questions, or having a reliable advisor you can turn to. When we talk about 'advice you can rely on', we mean 'advice that if it turns out to be wrong you can sue the pants off whoever gave it to you'. Clearly what we say here is not 'reliable': and an employer needs to be sure of their ground. You can't just make it up as you go along.

With the person telling you (wrongly) that you 'should' be paying for their travel time, you could perhaps have a discussion about how that would become affordable. It would defiinitely be worth you working out what their hourly rate looks like once you have allowed for travel time - as dacouch says, if you've got a couple of hours between jobs, it does make a difference! Would a lower hourly rate for more hours be any better?

antrobus

cobbingstones wrote: »

Hello

I was informed today by one of my staff that I should be paying for their time to travel from job to another within the working day. I run a cleaning business and they usually have 4 to 5 different jobs per day. I pay well over the minimum wage (£8 per hour for the cleaners and £9 for the supervisor). Who is right?

Thanks you

Someone else asked a similar question on another thread recently, to which I provided the following response;

antrobus wrote: »

Oddly enough the latest Private Eye has an article about the issue of workers not being paid for travel time between jobs. (Page 31 if anyone's interested.)

It quotes the Department of Business Innovation and Skills as stating that "time spent travelling on business, including between house calls, counts as time worked for minimum wage purposes" and claims that "associated expenditure" such as petrol "should be reimbursed". Apparently BIS advises any worker who believes they have an issue to contact the Pay and Work Rights helpline on 0800 917 2368.

I'd therefore guess that, if an employer was paying "well over the minimum wage" but not paying for travel time, they would still have a calculation to make to ensire they were complying with the NMW.

cobbingstones

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Whether you are obliged to pay them for their travel time depends on what it says in their terms and conditions. And it's not at all uncommon for companies providing home care NOT to pay for travel time, and not to pay mileage either. I don't know how common it is for the same to apply to cleaners: most I've known have been fully self-employed.


It wasn't stated in their contract. I'm a new business and I discussed this at their interview. I pay 20p per mile for petrol. =

Are your cleaners on 'zero hours' contracts, ie you pay them for the hours they work, rather than guaranteeing a set no. of hours each week? If so, there are a couple of things you might want to think about. While that suits some people very well - because they can turn down hours - it's not so good for those who need a regular income. You could have a mix of 'regular' and 'as and when' staff if that would help you manage a fluctuating workflow. And you know you have to pay holiday pay, even for 'zero hours' contracts, don't you?

Most of my colleagues want a certain amount of hours which is usually 16 or 25 hours. They are paid the correct amount of holiday pay.

If you were paying for travel time, it would obviously be in your interests to plan their routes carefully and group jobs sensibly.

Yes of course.

Also, it's worth YOU knowing the answers to these questions, or having a reliable advisor you can turn to. When we talk about 'advice you can rely on', we mean 'advice that if it turns out to be wrong you can sue the pants off whoever gave it to you'. Clearly what we say here is not 'reliable': and an employer needs to be sure of their ground. You can't just make it up as you go along.

I'm going to contact ACAS on Monday for some help.

With the person telling you (wrongly) that you 'should' be paying for their travel time, you could perhaps have a discussion about how that would become affordable. It would defiinitely be worth you working out what their hourly rate looks like once you have allowed for travel time - as dacouch says, if you've got a couple of hours between jobs, it does make a difference! Would a lower hourly rate for more hours be any better?

This person wants their full hourly rate for travel. They feel they are working so why shouldn't they get their full rate? I would of been prepared to pay around the £4.50 per hour mark, although I do not get any money for this time. Even without travel time I am paying the £2 extra per hour if I include products, materials, holiday pay, mileage, employers NI etc. With travel time on top, it would not be viable to run a business on their current hourly rate.

Thank you Sue.

anamenottaken

cobbingstones wrote: »

This person wants their full hourly rate for travel. They feel they are working so why shouldn't they get their full rate? I would of been prepared to pay around the £4.50 per hour mark, although I do not get any money for this time. Even without travel time I am paying the £2 extra per hour if I include products, materials, holiday pay, mileage, employers NI etc. With travel time on top, it would not be viable to run a business on their current hourly rate.

Thank you Sue.

Products and materials have nothing to do with an hourly rate you are paying your workers. Those are not costs of employing them though they may be costs of providing the service.

paulwellerfan

if they are travelling from job to job then yes you should pay them.
i get paid when i travel from job to job.
and i am not on min wage.

Mistral001

Do they have a workplace base or are they travelling from home to jobs?

ohreally

cobbingstones wrote: »

I was informed today by one of my staff that I should be paying for their time to travel from job to another within the working day. I run a cleaning business and they usually have 4 to 5 different jobs per day.

They are on your business, you should be paying their time travelling and you should be either providing transport or if using their own, an appropriate mileage allowance (not simply petrol expenses).