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Baroness Thatcher passed away
Comments
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Not to forget the horrendous working conditions and claims that would have resulted for all manner of industry related illness, nor the large state subsidies that would have been required to keep the mines going, as it was far cheaper to import from abroad, no matter how 'productivity' had increased.There is no way to credibly claim that the decline was steady or that the data makes the quoted claim of the person you were replying to ludicrous. Rather, a mirror to examine whether your own characterisation of this data is ludicrous and recanting seems warranted.
Far from contradicting it, the data you've pointed to very strongly supports the claim that Thatcher closed the coal mines, so far as employee and mine counts go.
year, mines, employees, tonnage - employee then tonnage %, productivity
1950 901 691 220
1955 850 699 225
1960 698 602 197
1965 483 456 186
1970 292 287 145 - 86% 78%
1975 241 247 126 - 93% 87% 0.51
1980 211 230 127 - 93% 101% 0.55
1985 133 138 105 - 60% 83% 0.76
1990 65 57 92 - 41% 88% 1.61
1995 65 15 51 - 26% 55% 3.4
2000 28 8 31
2004 19 6 27 ... 4.5
I've calculated the percentage remaining for employees, output and the production per employee from period to period to make it clearer. Note particularly the precipitous increase in the rate at which the employee count drops starting with the Thatcher years.
There's something else very notable about this data: the productivity per miner has hugely increased, measured in amount of coal produced per miner.
What the data really supports is a claim that Thatcher caused a massive decrease in the coal mining industry which had been inefficient compared to current efficiency levels, by enabling the closing of the least efficient pits and more efficient working practices.
That was devastating for workers and communities in the industry but could perhaps have been hugely profitable if you were an owner, except for the pension cost issue of supporting the large workforce pension payments on a much smaller industry size.0 -
They do seem to be getting there FINALLY though....
Their services are getting better in my opinion, as a long term user, business and residential.
However, it's getting harder and harder to talk to someone in the UK.
The miscommunication between someone in India (or wherever they are) as undertsanding each other is difficult causes uneccesary delays and problems, just through communication breakdown.
I don't mean this to be derogatory, as much as I have troubles understanding some of what they are telling me, they too have trouble understanding what I'm saying. A simple postcode is a complete nightmare.
They appear, agains, as a long term user, to have concentrated on their core services, which is welcome, but ship out anything else around the world. Just got an e-mail from them this morning, and you literally go round in circles. After totally confusing me as to why they asked for our directors date of birth, they have passed me through 4 different departments only to tell me they didn't need it in the first place.0 -
Not to forget the horrendous working conditions and claims that would have resulted for all manner of industry related illness, nor the large state subsidies that would have been required to keep the mines going, as it was far cheaper to import from abroad, no matter how 'productivity' had increased.
Was it cheaper in absolute terms the coal might have been cheaper but if you add in cost of lost tax, benefit payments etc it probably cost us more.0 -
They do seem to be getting there FINALLY though....
BT suffered competition form the new technologies and wasn't a quick to react and change. It has been forced to adapt and install constantly evolving technologies. There are new parallel service supply methods. It has had to fight to retain market share.
Gas and electricity are well gas and electricity. I don't underestimate the infrastructure and investment needed but it isn't as though you can go off and install something new to do the same job."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Their services are getting better in my opinion, as a long term user, business and residential.
However, it's getting harder and harder to talk to someone in the UK.
The miscommunication between someone in India (or wherever they are) as undertsanding each other is difficult causes uneccesary delays and problems, just through communication breakdown.
I don't mean this to be derogatory, as much as I have troubles understanding some of what they are telling me, they too have trouble understanding what I'm saying. A simple postcode is a complete nightmare.
They appear, agains, as a long term user, to have concentrated on their core services, which is welcome, but ship out anything else around the world. Just got an e-mail from them this morning, and you literally go round in circles. After totally confusing me as to why they asked for our directors date of birth, they have passed me through 4 different departments only to tell me they didn't need it in the first place.
The way faults are handled now is worse than in the past technicians being sent out on faults which to any train person are obviuosly in exchange.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »BT suffered competition form the new technologies and wasn't a quick to react and change. It has been forced to adapt and install constantly evolving technologies. There are new parallel service supply methods. It has had to fight to retain market share.
Gas and electricity are well gas and electricity. I don't underestimate the infrastructure and investment needed but it isn't as though you can go off and install something new to do the same job.
It's much easier to set up a telecommunications network from scratch in areas that are going to be profitable than bring a large system up to date in the whole country.
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Was it cheaper in absolute terms the coal might have been cheaper but if you add in cost of lost tax, benefit payments etc it probably cost us more.
There is a lot of truth in what you say.
Closing down the mines will be seen a good thing, a few generations down the line. We will still have an energy source to tap into.
Fears over elf and safety will pale into insignificance as people will probably end up killing to keep of hold dwindling supplies."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Margaret Thatcher did a great deal of good, but at a terrible cost.
She got the Communist Trades Unions who were ruining the country under control, that was good, but the breaking up of the Miners Union left whole areas of the North and Wales devastated with no work and no support. Arthur Scargill used the miners as a pawn just as much as the Government of that time.
She allowed people to buy their Council houses, but refused to allow the money to be used to build others, which has left millions of people unable to get an affordable secure tenancy (You will note however that no later Governemt has repealed the RTB).
She was instrumental in ending the Cold War. She was decisive in the Falklands War.
Some good, some bad.(AKA HRH_MUngo)
Member #10 of £2 savers club
Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton0
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