Tmobile price increase

RandomCurve

Barnicle_Fiend wrote: »

I think the pertinent question is:

If Ofcom refuse to step in when t-mobile abuse their position in a way that affects thousands (millions?) of customers (i.e. deliberately twisting and misinterpreting their own t&c's for financial gain) then of course only a very small percentage of customers will take their case to the CISAS (due to the process being relatively long, opaque and complex).

Does that mean that Ofcom is, in effect, rewarding foul behaviour from networks by making it financially beneficial for them? (i.e. The network only looses a few customers and raises a huge amount of extra money from the majority by lieing & cheating customers).

Yes that is eaxctly what it means.

In effect most T&Cs can look to be fair on paper, it is the way the T&C is implemented that would make it unfair. So for example IF TM wrote to you in early April and said
"We are going to apply 3.3% based on our estimate of RPI to published on 16th April, and if the actual RPI is lower than 3.3%we will give you 30 days from 16th April to cancel without penalty" then T&C 7.2.3.3 IS FAIR. However the way it was implemneted meant it was ambiguous and made no sense until after 16th April (and even then it does not make sense) and that is what makes it an unfair T&C. If ofcom won't look at the operation of the clause they will almost never pick up on unfair T&Cs.

The question for OFCOM - is if they can't step in - who can? OFT have alredy said it is not them.

anna2007

d123 wrote: »

I'm sure Anna was only a few days behind me in the timescale, perhaps she had an unfavourable answer from CISAS and that's why she hasn't been back?

I've always been pretty sure it's going to be a 50/50 bet on outcome, all we can really do now is to wait and see. I'll post up any more responses from CISAS when they arrive.

Still here - just having a break while it's with CISAS

TM was due to respond to my CISAS complaint by Monday, I emailed yesterday for an update but have heard nothing back. I'm guessing it'll be the same response as d123, if/when they do bother to reply. Will post on the forum as soon as I have any news.

I was sending some Ofcom/CISAS stuff to the media last night, and checked the CISAS rules on their website - nothing in there to say that TM can object to CISAS handling a customer's claim (it's up to CISAS to decide whether a claim is valid or not). Just another example of them making up the rules as they go along :mad:

Have started to fill in the form for the small claims court...

Barnicle_Fiend

Here's my response to the Ofcom email a few of us received:


Hi Lauren,

Thanks for your reply. I understand your points and have two questions in response:

QUESTION 1
If Ofcom refuse to step in when t-mobile abuse their position in a way that affects thousands (millions?) of customers (i.e. deliberately twisting and misinterpreting their own t&c's for financial gain) then of course only a very small percentage of customers will take their case to the CISAS (due to the process being relatively long, opaque and complex).

Does that mean that Ofcom is, in effect, rewarding foul behaviour from networks by making it financially beneficial for them? (i.e. The network only looses a few customers and raises a huge amount of extra money from the majority by lying & cheating customers that feel trapped and powerless).


QUESTION 2
The article below relates to a 2011 orange mid-term price hike and has the following quote from Ofcom:

‘Whilst we do not believe that there is a case for us to investigate this general matter, whether or not individual consumers suffer material detriment will depend on the individual circumstances in each case, and customers can still contact Orange if they think they have or will suffer material detriment and be prepared to provide evidence to support their claim. Further, where a customer has concerns that Orange has not met its terms and conditions the relevant dispute resolution body, CISAS, may be able to consider this.’

blogs.which.co.uk/technology/mobile-phone-networks/ofcom-are-not-going-to-investigate-oranges-price-rise/

You are asking customers to write to their networks and provide evidence to support the fact that they have been affected by a term that Ofcom invented and yet has not defined.

'Material Detriment'

Please can you define 'Material Detriment' if you expect customers to prove they are affected by it? (through examples if required).

Again, I look forward to your reply.

Kind regards,

XXXXX

aiutami

Very much appreciate the work alot of you are doing on this. The T-Mobile contract I'm concerned with isn't even mine but I really want to see this through.

I, and I suspect many others, are somewhat behind a few of you in the complaint timeline. Whilst several have already begun the CISAS process, I am still waiting for an official reply from T-Mobile other than the generic; so and so is away at the moment...etc etc (have had the OFT, OFCOM replies). I'm pretty much overwhelmed with all the information and am confused about what I should be doing at the moment. Obviously I can't escalate this to CISAS as I have had no personal contact yet with T-Mobile! If anyone can give me some advice I'd very much appreciate it.

On a slight aside, should anyone get a final ruling from CISAS, either positive or negative, would that have an impact on all contracts or do we all need to make our own individual cases?

Thanks for the help and keep up the good work.

d123

aiutami wrote: »

On a slight aside, should anyone get a final ruling from CISAS, either positive or negative, would that have an impact on all contracts or do we all need to make our own individual cases?

Thanks for the help and keep up the good work.

If CISAS rule against T-Mobile in a case I would be pretty sure T-Mobile will cave for all cases currently pending.

If CISAS rule against the customer, expect T-Mobile to get even more uncooperative and refuse to communicate or liaise at all, having a CISAS ruling in their favour would probably also make them defend any court action anyone proceeds with more vigorously as well..

shedder101

RandomCurve wrote: »

Congratulations. :T

To save me time trawling through the post were you on a pre or post 2012 contract? And can you give a quick overview of what happened? - Thanks

i was on the Pre Oct contract

more or less the same as everyone, wrote a letter of cancellation, called them up had an argument, obtained my PAC and used it.

but i think the only reason i have won is they blacklisted as stolen my personal telephones then denied doing it, when i said i would sue in a letter something was done

not a complete victory but satisfactory as i have left TM with a year left on my contract

adamoneill88

stoney73 wrote: »

Just received this aswell. A great amount of waffle. Defensive waffle at that.

Edit: Has anyone had any progress with their Cicas Applications?

Just had the same generic response from Ofcom

ruflonger

Barnicle_Fiend wrote: »

Reply from Ofcom.

Received the same response today

Chimper

Another contact for the report on T-Mobile that shows how big a risk they are to investors. [EMAIL="elizabeth.fournier@cityam.com"]elizabeth.fournier@cityam.com[/EMAIL]

She's news editor for a daily online business newspaper, so can we re-post the following to her and keep the pressure up on Mr Swantee :wave:

I would assume that you are aware of the large number of complaints being made regarding the recent price increase, and breach of terms and conditions, made by T-Mobile in the UK.

A large number of T-Mobile customers are questioning whether Mr Olaf Swantee and his team are fit to run a company that is hoping to float on the stock exchange, and have therefore contacted the press in the UK with the following story:-

A business/Investor and Consumer story!

As you will be aware Everything Everywhere (EE) is largely funded by debt and is potentially looking to float on the LSE later this year. Despite these two factors the current EE Board of directors have admitted that they consciously took a business decision that risked losing all of T-Mobiles Pay monthly customers when announcing the recent price increases, calling into question if they are fit and proper persons to be directors of a company seeking a listing on the LSE. The press published details of the planned 3.3% pay rise on 1st March a full 46 days BEFORE the actual RPI figure was published on 16 April.

The following is from EE:


Dear Mr XXXX

Thank you for [previous correspondence]

Our Legal Department have confirmed the following:

The written notice that was issued in early April 2013 was sent without knowledge of what the actual March RPI figure would be until published on 16 April 2013, however, this increase in charges is not an increase above the published month March RPI figure of 3.3% and does not give the customer a right to cancel. This was a risk that we took as a business as to what figure would be published on 16 April 2013 but that was our risk to take as a business and does not give the customer the right to cancel. As a business we anticipated the RPI figure for March, if it had been lower than expected, customer's would have been entitled to cancel their contracts but as this is not the case cancellation of your contract without penalty is declined.

[Personal contract cancellation detailsremoved]

Whilst I appreciate the above may not be entirely to your satisfaction, I trust I have clarified T-Mobile's position in this matter.

Yours sincerely

Mandy Lowery
Executive Complaints, EE


Thousands of customers still believe that EE are in breach of contract and the ONS has been contacted to investigate what appears to be an apparent leak of protected statistics. Customers have until 9th May to contact T-Mobile requesting immediate termination of their contracts without penalty.

You may find this to prove a fruitful and interesting story as ONS, OFCOM, and CISAS, are all aware of what is happening, and it would be not only be of public interest (I would not want my pension investing in such a risk hungry company), but also of business interest to potential investors.

I believe you have received a similar email to the above from [EMAIL="eevenrandomcurve@gmail.com"]eevenrandomcurve@gmail.com[/EMAIL] with contact details in order that you may discuss and verify the story further.

adamoneill88

Chimper wrote: »

Another contact for the report on T-Mobile that shows how big a risk they are to investors. [EMAIL="elizabeth.fournier@cityam.com"]elizabeth.fournier@cityam.com[/EMAIL]

Sent