Tmobile price increase

RandomCurve

daveuk1 wrote: »

I agree that regulatory intervention is likely to be the only route for others to successfully terminate but I think CISAS' adjudication effectively means that all bets are off because it shows that it is not only the contractual terms that are important. If they were interpreting the contract strictly, they would have rejected the claims. So it's worth analysing their reasoning to see if it can be used to form a wider case against T-Mobile, albeit unlikely.

I thought there was something in the law that you have 6 years to lodge a claim for breach of contract? - Any ideas anybody?

Also as Ofcom had publicly stated that EE had acted reasonably is there a case for those who did not cancel to sue ofcom as they can claim they never invoked their rights because the industry regulator effectively said there was no case? Ofcom announcement was on 7th May - we could cancel until 9th May.

A number of newspapers and websites also reported that you could not cancel the contract without paying a penalty when the price was first announced, but as I and others wrote to those papers challenging that aren't they also complicit and can be sued for the mis information? (or at least those we asked to print a correction?).

makemesumdosh

Well done guys, at last the CISAS has got the balls to act unlike OFCOM.

My 8 weeks are up so i can file my report to CISAS now, do you think things will go through fairly quickly now or is it going to take ages as hundreds will be contacting CISAS now the case against T-Mobile has been won.

i was thinking of trying to speak to someone at T-Mobile probably in cancellations who are UK based and offering them the chance to refund all monies paid my me since April, issue PAC code and pay suitable compensation no they know they have lost and the floodgates will open.

does anyone know how much it costs them each time they defend a CISAS case ?

anna2007

makemesumdosh wrote: »

Well done guys, at last the CISAS has got the balls to act unlike OFCOM.

My 8 weeks are up so i can file my report to CISAS now, do you think things will go through fairly quickly now or is it going to take ages as hundreds will be contacting CISAS now the case against T-Mobile has been won.

i was thinking of trying to speak to someone at T-Mobile probably in cancellations who are UK based and offering them the chance to refund all monies paid my me since April, issue PAC code and pay suitable compensation no they know they have lost and the floodgates will open.

does anyone know how much it costs them each time they defend a CISAS case ?

It's been said previously on the forum that the cost to TM is £hundreds (this was a few years back, so may be as much as £500 per case)? I suppose this cost might reduce if CISAS are churning out the same decision for related cases and I imagine it won't take the full 3 week wait for the adjudicator's decision.

If the cost is around £500, then it would take around 100,000 (around 3% of affected customers) complaints to CISAS to wipe out the £50 million EE stands to gain overall from the price increase...

It's possible that if you contact TM, they may well now be willing to let you out of your contract penalty-free, but I think we should look at the bigger picture - the more customers who take their complaint to CISAS, the more this hurts TM financially. Also, the more who have a successful outcome at CISAS, the more likely TM are to back down and allow ALL customers who requested cancellation to walk. Worth thinking about

daveuk1

RandomCurve wrote: »

I thought there was something in the law that you have 6 years to lodge a claim for breach of contract? - Any ideas anybody?

Yes, but in this case the breach of contract isn't triggered unless you gave T-Mobile notice of cancellation before 10 May (when the increase took effect).

RandomCurve wrote: »

Also as Ofcom had publicly stated that EE had acted reasonably is there a case for those who did not cancel to sue ofcom as they can claim they never invoked their rights because the industry regulator effectively said there was no case? Ofcom announcement was on 7th May - we could cancel until 9th May.

There may be questions to be asked of OFCOM but I can't see that that equates to a right to sue them, primarily because I don't think that the regulator owes mobile network customers any duty of care.

RandomCurve wrote: »

A number of newspapers and websites also reported that you could not cancel the contract without paying a penalty when the price was first announced, but as I and others wrote to those papers challenging that aren't they also complicit and can be sued for the mis information? (or at least those we asked to print a correction?).

Not a chance. OFCOM probably don't owe the public a duty of care in this situation and the media definitely doesn't. Newspapers are not obliged to print anything (unless ordered by a court to do so).

anna2007

Barnicle_Fiend wrote: »

Well done guys!

For those that didn't cancel their contracts on time &/or haven't acted to date. Bear in mind that t-mobile breached Ofcom General Condition 9.6(c):

"(c) at the same time as giving the notice ...[of the price hike, the Communications Provider]... shall inform the Subscriber of its ability to terminate the contract without penalty if the proposed modification is not acceptable to the Subscriber."

In my view there is a reasonable argument that customers cancelling late were not made aware of their right to cancel & effectively misled into accepting the price hike.

Good point - the requirements of the General Conditions, together with Random's point that Ofcom misled customers by stating to the press that EE acted reasonably, may be enough to secure cancellation for those who didn't give notice? It would certainly be worth a try, by contacting Ofcom directly and highlighting these points - they surely can't continue to hide behind the excuse that these are individual cases, when GC's have been breached - and Ofcom were complicit in that breach!

Lifes_Grand_Plan

magicuk wrote: »

Obviously I've been following this thread with great interest and now CICAS are siding with us in regards to this recent price increase its even more interesting! now at the start of May I contacted t mobile to tell them I didn't agree with the increase and would like to cancel, they obv advised me I can't without charges, now when I spoke to the lady on the phone I told her I would like it to be documented on my account that I don't agree with the increased charges and left it as that (obv back then I was also following this thread where MSE were saying you may be able to cancel) now this is all coming to light that we could indeed cancel do I have to wright to CICAS or can I just call t mobile CS stating due to these points I would like to cancel and request my PAC code?

If you contacted T Mobile to cancel and they said you couldn't then I would wait the 8 weeks (for deadlock) and then start a CISAS claim.

In the meantime might be worth emailing the T-mobile Executive and saying you rang to cancel but were told you weren't allowed to without penalty and you believe that to be wrong because of X, Y and Z (check back in the thread).

d123

daveuk1 wrote: »

Yes, but in this case the breach of contract isn't triggered unless you gave T-Mobile notice of cancellation before 10 May (when the increase took effect).



There may be questions to be asked of OFCOM but I can't see that that equates to a right to sue them, primarily because I don't think that the regulator owes mobile network customers any duty of care.



Not a chance. OFCOM probably don't owe the public a duty of care in this situation and the media definitely doesn't. Newspapers are not obliged to print anything (unless ordered by a court to do so).

I would agree with all the points raised, the point was raised in the past about giving notice of cancellation before the increase came about, and the fact of cancelling before the RPI rate changed on the 16th was also brought up.

I actually cannot even see the point of wanting to sue OFCOM or the press, neither has a direct customer related duty of care, OFCOM even makes the point that it does not entertain individual complaints and all details gathered with regard to mid term price increases will go into their consultation which might see a change to the regulations which will prohibit this happening in the future.

This whole matter pivots on the one point of "immediate cancellation", and anyone who didn't do so while the rate was 3.2% will now fail IMO.

If anyone who followed this whole thread didn't give notice in the first half of April they really only have themselves to blame, it only took a phone call and follow up email to get it documented.

daveuk1

d123 wrote: »

I would agree with all the points raised, the point was raised in the past about giving notice of cancellation before the increase came about, and the fact of cancelling before the RPI rate changed on the 16th was also brought up.

I actually cannot even see the point of wanting to sue OFCOM or the press, neither has a direct customer related duty of care, OFCOM even makes the point that it does not entertain individual complaints and all details gathered with regard to mid term price increases will go into their consultation which might see a change to the regulations which will prohibit this happening in the future.

This whole matter pivots on the one point of "immediate cancellation", and anyone who didn't do so while the rate was 3.2% will now fail IMO.

If anyone who followed this whole thread didn't give notice in the first half of April they really only have themselves to blame, it only took a phone call and follow up email to get it documented.

I think you could make a case on the basis of your adjudication, providing that you gave notice before the price rise kicked in, because the adjudicator seems to have placed considerable weight (IMHO incorrectly, but that's irrelevant) on the ambiguity of the terms and the consequent need to interpret them in favour of the customer. The ambiguity, in my view, arose at the point at which notice of the increase was sent out and was not dependent upon whether or not you gave notice of cancellation before or after the April RPI was announced.

Worth a crack but frankly T-Mobile, CISAS and OFCOM all appear to be a law unto themselves so nothing is guaranteed.

d123

daveuk1 wrote: »

because the adjudicator seems to have placed considerable weight (IMHO incorrectly, but that's irrelevant) on the ambiguity of the terms and the consequent need to interpret them in favour of the customer. .

Maybe because that's the law?

The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

Assessment of unfair terms

7.—(1) A seller or supplier shall ensure that any written term of a contract is expressed in plain, intelligible language.

(2) If there is doubt about the meaning of a written term, the interpretation which is most favourable to the consumer shall prevail

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2083/pdfs/uksi_19992083_en.pdf

daveuk1

d123 wrote: »

Maybe because that's the law?



http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2083/pdfs/uksi_19992083_en.pdf

Indeed. I meant that I didn't agree with the interpretation that the terms were ambiguous, not that if they were that they should be interpreted in favour of the consumer.