BACS PAYMENT - Scammed and desperately need help!

JSPENCER

Hi Guys

I've unfortunately fallen into the trap of being scammed by someone on Gumtree.

I'm normally quite savvy when it comes to online payments, but the series of events here gave me no reason to suspect I was being scammed.

It turns out now, that just by googling the recipients account number and sort code, they have scammed a lot of people, for many different gig tickets, under lots of different names, but always the same bank details.

The give you a background of the situation.
-I saw two Beyonce tickets on Gumtree that I wanted, I contacted the seller, who suggested a face to face meeting to swap cash for tickets.

-I lived too far away so suggested paypal, paypal details were given and I sent the money, the recipient advised me their paypal account was playing up, so gave me a FULL REFUND.

-This gave me no reason to suspect it was a scam, so I suggested a direct bank transfer, they provided me account number and sort code and I made payment.

-They sent me a copy of the confirmation email regarding the tickets, then when the money cleared my account their email address was deactivated, I had no other contact details (stupid I know)

Now for the tricky part, I've been advised I have no protection at all with regards to BACS payments, so once they're gone, they are gone..

-I contacted the RBS fraud team, they advised me it isn't classed as fraud as I willingly made the payment, and to contact my branch to do an inter-bank investigation.

-I contacted my branch, they told me they'd never heard of this, referred me back to the Fraud team, who then referred me to the police.

-I rang the police, they told me to contact Action Fraud, I contacted Action Fraud, who gave me a crime reference number to give to my bank.

-I tried to provide my bank with this, they refused and again said it isn't fraud, and to try the recipients bank to see if they can contact them and politely request they give me my money back (what the heck?)

At this point, massively concerned that I'm actually paying £10 a month for this bank account and receiving pretty much no advice or service whatsoever (I work in customer service myself and have a huge thing about treating the customer right), I can't just accept 'the money is gone' as they are suggesting.

-I rang the recipients bank (Co-op Cash Plus).. They were VERY helpful, and advised me the account was in the name of the Recipient (Kelly Moss), but that it had been completely inactive for over two years.. no payments in or out (in my head that tells me it's someone working at Co-Op Cash Plus deleting information on the account..

-Cash Plus couldn't do a lot as I'm a third party, and advised me to contact my bank, who advised again to contact the police, who advised again to contact Action Fraud, who THEN advised me to call the police, then when I said the police had advised to contact them, they gave me a link to the Financial Ombudsman

-I don't have a complaint open, and RBS won't log one as it isn't fraud in their eyes, so the Financial Ombudsman can't really do anything for me?

Long winded I know, I've tried to summarise so it's easy to read, I'm very frustrated, genuinely thought the bank would help me more, I realise completely it is my fault, and I was stupid enough to send over the money (£200).

I just can't accept that the money is gone, and there is no way that RBS can investigate it, they must have ways to liaise with other banks, they MUST! If I had called them and said '£200 has gone missing, no idea how that happened', they would have to investigate it straight away for me surely, so just because I've gone in with the truth I'm being penalised.

Please give me advice on this, I'm stuck in the middle, trying my hardest to be the middle man between all of this parties that can't and/or won't help me!

I look forward to any help ANYONE can give, please forgive me if this is in the wrong section, I couldn't find an Idiots section!

Regards
JSPENCER

matttye

Complain to the Ombudsman and tell them that you tried to complain to the bank but they won't even open a complaint!

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-auction-fraud

"Are you a victim of shopping and auction fraud?

You’ve bought goods from an online seller that are either late in arriving or don’t arrive at all."

You're a victim of fraud as far as the police are concerned!

I'd take my business elsewhere immediately if my bank was this stupid.

JSPENCER

Thanks for the reply Mattye. I saw that on the Action Fraud website too, so it's ridiculous that they're fobbing me off.

As soon as I got off the phone to RBS yesterday, I immediately opened a new account and am in the process of transferring all my DD's and my Wages to go to this new account. I got £125 for opening the account too, so it goes some way to making up for the loss I've made currently!

EDIT: I realise my new bank probably wouldn't do anything either, but as a stickler for customer service I just can't carry on with RBS now. Time for a change regardless of the outcome.

grumbler

matttye wrote: »

Complain to the Ombudsman and tell them that you tried to complain to the bank but they won't even open a complaint!

I don't see anything to complain about. It's not the bank's business - like if you withdrew the cash and paid cash.

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-auction-fraud

"Are you a victim of shopping and auction fraud?

You’ve bought goods from an online seller that are either late in arriving or don’t arrive at all."

You're a victim of fraud as far as the police are concerned!

Police - maybe. Their typical excuse for fobbing off in such cases is that there is no evidence that the seller took the money with no intention of supplying goods/services. Without the evidence it's a civil matter, not a crime.

I'd take my business elsewhere immediately if my bank was this stupid.

Good luck with finding a more clever bank.

matttye

grumbler wrote: »

I don't see anything to complain about. It's not the bank's business - like if you withdrew the cash and paid cash.

Police - maybe. Their typical excuse for fobbing off in such cases that there is no evidence that the seller took the money with no intention of supplying goods/services. Without the evidence it's a civil matter, not a crime.

Good luck with finding a more clever bank.

The money scenario is different because the bank has literally no involvement in that situation. It does here. The bank can initiate a charge back (for part of the money anyway), which would be good customer service. The recipient's bank doesn't have to agree to the charge back of course, but I fail to see why the OP's bank is flat out refusing to do anything to assist. Not very helpful, is it?

My main reason for saying the bank is stupid is because they're repeatedly saying it's not fraud when it CLEARLY is.

JSPENCER

grumbler wrote: »

I don't see anything to complain about. It's not the bank's business - like if you withdrew the cash and paid cash.

I can understand this, completely my fault, but surely the banks have an obligation to look into this further for me. Like I said, if I'd gone in with 'this money has disappeared I have no idea how and why', they'd be straight on it for me.

grumbler wrote: »

Police - maybe. Their typical excuse for fobbing off in such cases is that there is no evidence that the seller took the money with no intention of supplying goods/services. Without the evidence it's a civil matter, not a crime.

http://ticketscamsblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/has-anyone-been-scammed-by-infosonysales-eu-on-gumtree-ticket-scam/ - Is that evidence enough? Numerous names given, numerous email address given for correspondence, one bank account used.

rb10

JSPENCER wrote: »

I can understand this, completely my fault, but surely the banks have an obligation to look into this further for me. Like I said, if I'd gone in with 'this money has disappeared I have no idea how and why', they'd be straight on it for me.

All they would do is investigate, and find that it was you who had made the transfer.

It's never the bank's problem where you choose to send your money. Their only concern is that it is only you who is able to make payments from your account.

grumbler

matttye wrote: »

The money scenario is different because the bank has literally no involvement in that situation. It does here. The bank can initiate a charge back (for part of the money anyway), which would be good customer service.

The recipient's bank doesn't have to agree to the charge back of course, but I fail to see why the OP's bank is flat out refusing to do anything to assist. Not very helpful, is it?

Giving a wrong information is even less helpful. Chargeback is in place for card payments only and is Visa/Mastercard/Amex procedure. This is the reason why fraudsters ask for bank transfers and other ways of payment where you get no protection from the bank - simply because your bank can't protect you.

My main reason for saying the bank is stupid is because they're repeatedly saying it's not fraud when it CLEARLY is.

OK, what they say is really a good reason for switching, not how they act. Especially when what they say is pretty much the same what the police is likely to say - that, unlike banks, exists for dealing with crime, including fraud.

And I do have an experience of dealing with police on a similar matter. My son was a victim of a similar e-bay fraud several years ago. The police was useless and even in their official reply simply washed their hands by saying that it was a civil matter. It's hardly a surprise that with such attitude this sort of fraud flourishes in UK.

JSPENCER

rb10 wrote: »

All they would do is investigate, and find that it was you who had made the transfer.

It's never the bank's problem where you choose to send your money. Their only concern is that it is only you who is able to make payments from your account.

So if I'd called them, and said £200 has left my account, via a bank transfer, and it 100% wasn't me that went onto my online banking and transferred it..?

They'd have no proof it was me that logged in and sent it, the only evidence suggesting it was me is the fact I've admitted to it, if I hadn't, I could have claimed otherwise..

anna42hmr

JSPENCER wrote: »

They'd have no proof it was me that logged in and sent it, the only evidence suggesting it was me is the fact I've admitted to it, if I hadn't, I could have claimed otherwise..

And that would be you acting fraudulently by not informing all info...

however besides that the bank would also want to know how someone got your internet banking user id, password and any additional info they ask for such as memorable info or card reader etc depending on the bank.

Also did you make any other transactions etc at same time as they would question why they were legitimate and not this one

Plus depending on how their internet banking system works, some track IP addresses, and whilst some peoples change depending on their internet service provider, if yours doesn't and can see other log ons from the same - ie. your IP address then questions would be asked!

I can see why you are upset, however bank fraud depts. are there to counteract fraud such as where people have had money transferred as a result of instances such as someone cloning a card, hacking to internet, or their account holders receiving stolen funds etc.

As you had chose to make the payment, this hasn't happened in this instance, and whilst yes you have been scammed and it is a fraud the bank hasn't acted incorrectly as they acted on your instructions to make a payment.

rb10

JSPENCER wrote: »

So if I'd called them, and said £200 has left my account, via a bank transfer, and it 100% wasn't me that went onto my online banking and transferred it..?

They'd have no proof it was me that logged in and sent it, the only evidence suggesting it was me is the fact I've admitted to it, if I hadn't, I could have claimed otherwise..

Remember that making a declaration of this sort to the bank is fraudulent in itself. Is this what you are suggesting?