Any experiences of Guardian Conservatory Roofs please?

pjb729

Hi

I wondered if anyone had gotten to the bottom of the 5% vat issue on Guardian roofs installs, sticking strictly to the regulations is that only the insulation part of the Guardian roof install would be subject to 5% not the entire install itself but I would be more than happy to be proven wrong.


Below is an outtake from the Government website, as a new member I can't post links, just look at the example I have made bold, this is the example provided on the Government website not one I have made up. You could argue that the existing roof is not being replaced because it is faulty it is simply being replaced as it is not energy efficient therefore the Insulation and energy efficiency benefit is the essence of the whole job

Guidance to Builders
Energy saving, heating and security

You can charge the reduced rate of VAT on work you do to install qualifying energy-saving products, and certain grant-funded heating and security equipment for people over 60 or on benefits.

You can also charge the reduced rate for extra work you need to do as part of the installation. But you must charge the standard rate of 20% on all work if the installation is just part of another, bigger job.

Example
You have to cut a new hatch in the ceiling to install loft insulation. Because you needed to do this as part of the insulation, you can charge reduced-rate VAT.

Example
You replace a roof with a new, insulated one. Because the insulation is just part of a bigger job, you have to charge the standard rate of 20% on the whole job.

Davesnave

I may be wrong, but I don't believe conservatories are included in EPC calculations, so making them more energy efficient seems likely to be an irrelevance from an 'official' viewpoint.


.

pjb729

I did a little research and many solid roofing company's advertise that a solid roof attracts 5% VAT

So is 5% VAT payable
on the installation only?
on the whole job?
on the insulation?

I have one of the companies coming around next week

Icon..................... ONLY 5% VAT - Government Thermal Incentive Scheme
BGPS..............Fast installation; Only 5% VAT – Government thermal incentive.
Comfortrooms Ltd..............Comfort Rooms installation is subject to only 5% VAT SupaLite tiled roof
CosyRoof.............. is so energy efficient that it qualifies for reduced VAT – just 5%! Meaning replacing your conservatory roof is now more affordable.
Yorkshire Conservatory Roof Insulation.................Also it is HMRC approved for a green incentive VAT reduction to 5%.
Green space UK ...........Only 5% VAT a 15% reduction by the government as our panels are so energy efficient - another indicator of the difference they can make

Plus many others
Warmcool
Natconuk

pjb729

Davesnave wrote: »

I may be wrong, but I don't believe conservatories are included in EPC calculations, so making them more energy efficient seems likely to be an irrelevance from an 'official' viewpoint.

.

The Government website on VAT reduction makes no reference to EPC, if you're over 60 and\or in receipt of certain benefits, sorry can't post the link but see below.
The site from which this is taken needs to be read in conjunction with the Governments VAT guide to Builders again I can't post that link..................yet






Energy products that qualify

You pay the reduced rate of 5% for:
controls for central heating and hot water systems
draught insulation, eg around windows and doors
insulation on walls, floors, ceilings, lofts, etc
solar panels
wind turbines
water turbines
ground-source heat pumps
air-source heat pumps
micro combined heat and power units
wood-fuelled boilers

Central heating systems

You pay the reduced rate of 5% for work funded through energy efficiency grants on the:
installation of heating appliances
installation, repair and maintenance of central heating systems
installation, repair and maintenance of renewable source heating systems


The reduced rate is only for the grant-funded part of the work.

To qualify, you must be over 60 or getting one or more of the following:
Child Tax Credit (but not the family element)
Council Tax Benefit
Disability Living Allowance
Personal Independence Payment
a disablement pension
Housing Benefit
Jobseeker’s Allowance (income-based)
Income Support
War Disablement Pension
Working Tax Credit

Energy products that don’t qualify

You pay the standard rate of VAT for:
heating appliances or systems - unless you get an energy efficiency grant
energy efficient boilers
secondary or double glazing
low emission glass
energy efficient fridge freezers

Furts

pjb729 wrote: »

I did a little research and many solid roofing company's advertise that a solid roof attracts 5% VAT

So is 5% VAT payable
on the installation only?
on the whole job?
on the insulation?

I have one of the companies coming around next week

Icon..................... ONLY 5% VAT - Government Thermal Incentive Scheme
BGPS..............Fast installation; Only 5% VAT – Government thermal incentive.
Comfortrooms Ltd..............Comfort Rooms installation is subject to only 5% VAT SupaLite tiled roof
CosyRoof.............. is so energy efficient that it qualifies for reduced VAT – just 5%! Meaning replacing your conservatory roof is now more affordable.
Yorkshire Conservatory Roof Insulation.................Also it is HMRC approved for a green incentive VAT reduction to 5%.
Green space UK ...........Only 5% VAT a 15% reduction by the government as our panels are so energy efficient - another indicator of the difference they can make

Plus many others
Warmcool
Natconuk

I believe this as much as I believe DFS claiming they offer "A Half Price Sale", and Everest offering "50% Off".

A 5% VAT rate defies any logic to me. Think it through:

A conservatory is not subject to Planning Permission. Hence it is unregulated work

A conservatory is not subject to Buildings Regulations. Hence it is unregulated work.

Thus a conservatory meets two fundamentals for confirming jerry building and cowboy contractors.

There is no logic in the taxpayer subsidising unregulated building, when items that are subject to Regulation, such as replacement windows are subject to the full rate of 20% VAT.

You have no idea whether the claims are pure spin, nor how the named companies detail their accounts and subsequent VAT Returns. This means the whole querey is a total red herring. All that matters to the consumer is the price to be paid. How much of this is represented by VAT is an irrelevance. Who cares if it is 5% or 20%?

pjb729

Furts wrote: »

I believe this as much as I believe DFS claiming they offer "A Half Price Sale", and Everest offering "50% Off".

A 5% VAT rate defies any logic to me. Think it through:

A conservatory is not subject to Planning Permission. Hence it is unregulated work

A conservatory is not subject to Buildings Regulations. Hence it is unregulated work.

Thus a conservatory meets two fundamentals for confirming jerry building and cowboy contractors.

There is no logic in the taxpayer subsidising unregulated building, when items that are subject to Regulation, such as replacement windows are subject to the full rate of 20% VAT.

You have no idea whether the claims are pure spin, nor how the named companies detail their accounts and subsequent VAT Returns. This means the whole querey is a total red herring. All that matters to the consumer is the price to be paid. How much of this is represented by VAT is an irrelevance. Who cares if it is 5% or 20%?

The initial reason for my post was to establish the fact behind the posting by Oldnewt, his post seem to be borne out by the claims of the suppliers and in essence the Government VAT websites. The reroofing of a Conservatory will certainly, in my case, not be unregulated, I intend to use the Local Authority Building Control which many of the providers advise.
I would not accept nor spend good money on something that was " jerry built" or installed by "cowboy contractors".

My posting have all been focused on an attempt to establish the facts and benefit from the experiences of people who have used the Guardian Roofing system. I see little point in the Government setting up systems to assist the disabled etc if those systems are not used.

You are partly right I did have "no idea whether the claims are pure spin" but I do now:)

Davesnave

pjb729 wrote: »

The Government website on VAT reduction makes no reference to EPC, if you're over 60 and\or in receipt of certain benefits, sorry can't post the link

As the EPC, with all its inherent faults, is the way in which the energy efficiency of a home is calculated, it would make a mockery of reducing VAT on energy efficiency measures if these are applied to a building never included in such measurement.

However I'm not in control of of goverment policy, just pointing out an inconsistency in logic, if what companies claim about conservatory roof insulation is true, not merely their own creative accountancy.

pjb729

Davesnave wrote: »

As the EPC, with all its inherent faults, is the way in which the energy efficiency of a home is calculated, it would make a mockery of reducing VAT on energy efficiency measures if these are applied to a building never included in such measurement.

However I'm not in control of of goverment policy, just pointing out an inconsistency in logic, if what companies claim about conservatory roof insulation is true, not merely their own creative accountancy.

I agree the system is certainly not perfect or logical but all we can do is work with what's in place, one point which did make me look twice is the fact that you cannot claim the reduced VAT rate when installing a new energy efficient boiler. If a reduced VAT rate is offered at all then why exclude an energy efficient boiler, surely the boiler, which is used on a daily basis, would have a big effect on energy usage!!!!!

Perhaps logic is simply not the Governments strong point.:)

Rob_Quads

We have been considering one of these but the building regulations is one area it seems that lots of the companies don't really mention in full.

The roof is buildings regs compliant and up to scratch, but that does not make the rest of the room complaint i.e. you need to provide that all the windows are up to spec for the size room and also that the floor an walls are constructed to specification. This can be a bit tricky for older conversions.

Davesnave

pjb729 wrote: »

I agree the system is certainly not perfect or logical but all we can do is work with what's in place, one point which did make me look twice is the fact that you cannot claim the reduced VAT rate when installing a new energy efficient boiler. If a reduced VAT rate is offered at all then why exclude an energy efficient boiler, surely the boiler, which is used on a daily basis, would have a big effect on energy usage!!!!!

Perhaps logic is simply not the Governments strong point.:)

Perhaps it's also down to the fact that there are grants available for replacing old, inefficient boilers in property owned or rented by those with limited incomes?