Any experiences of Guardian Conservatory Roofs please?

polybear

Hi,
My conservatory roof is in need of replacement and I'm considering the Guardian Tiled Roof system. Has anyone any personal experience of such a system please - many thanks!

http://www.guardianconservatoryroofs.co.uk/

polybear

Furts

I do not have experience of these roofs - but would offer some general guidance.

What guarantee was on your conservatory? Has this expired? Will the new roof invalidate any conservatory guarantee?

What loading does the new roof exert on the existing structure? Has this been checked? If more, will the conservatory cope?

How, and to what, is the new roof fixed? Have you checked on this?

Does the new roof have BBA Approval? If so, have you read a copy of the document? Is it applicable to your conservatory?

What weather tightness and guarantee comes with the new roof?

Many conservatories have a shallow pitched roof.The principle of roof tiling is light weight or small tiles cannot be laid as flat as larger heavier interlocking concrete tiles. Putting a lightweight replacement roof on a conservatory may run counter to these principles.

Finally a quirk that comes to mind. Your conservatory was probably exempt from the Building Regulations - it had a glazed roof. When this glazed roof is replaced with a solid roof where does this put you with regard to these regulations? The answer may be nobody is interested - but the question might arise.

On balance, I would say the conservatory was designed and manufactured to have a glazed roof. If you change this you might be opening a catalogue of issues.

polybear

Many thanks for the reply; I've inserted responses as follows:

Furts wrote: »

I do not have experience of these roofs - but would offer some general guidance.

What guarantee was on your conservatory? Has this expired? Will the new roof invalidate any conservatory guarantee?
The guarantee expired long ago...

What loading does the new roof exert on the existing structure? Has this been checked? If more, will the conservatory cope?
The new roof is based on a lightweight aluminium framework; whilst the overall structure will no doubt weigh more than the existing structure I'm not overly concerned (I built the original hardwood structure - it's only framework on the front face - all other faces being solid brick or blockwork.) There's a surveyor coming next week to check the structure also; apparently the manufacturer has sold in excess of a thousand units so far.

How, and to what, is the new roof fixed? Have you checked on this?
A "ring beam" is fitted to the top of the existing framework - the aluminium roof framework is secured to this, as well as to house and side walls

Does the new roof have BBA Approval? If so, have you read a copy of the document? Is it applicable to your conservatory?
Tiles used have BBA approval; the roof system has LABC approval, meaning local authority building control depts. like it.

What weather tightness and guarantee comes with the new roof?
10 years, insurance backed.

Many conservatories have a shallow pitched roof.The principle of roof tiling is light weight or small tiles cannot be laid as flat as larger heavier interlocking concrete tiles. Putting a lightweight replacement roof on a conservatory may run counter to these principles.
One option of roof tile used is approved for pitches from 10 degrees upwards - the tiles have an interlocking system that prevents ingress of water being blown under the tiles in adverse weather conditions. Two layers of breathable felt membrane are also used beneath the tiles. My roof pitch is currently 10 degrees; this will be increased to something like 12.5 degrees for added protection.

Finally a quirk that comes to mind. Your conservatory was probably exempt from the Building Regulations - it had a glazed roof. When this glazed roof is replaced with a solid roof where does this put you with regard to these regulations? The answer may be nobody is interested - but the question might arise.
The rules changed in 2010 - if the conservatory is less than 30 sq.m, is thermally separated from the house internals (i.e. retain the internal back door), has separately controlled heating and suitable (i.e. safe) glazing in critical zones then it's fine to use the roof replacement. The new roof has a U value of 0.18, meaning heat loss should be vastly improved (i.e. much warmer in winter & much cooler in summer).

On balance, I would say the conservatory was designed and manufactured to have a glazed roof. If you change this you might be opening a catalogue of issues.

Many thanks for taking the time to reply to my question

polybear

Furts

You are well informed with your answers.

I have briefly viewed the website and link. I am not convinced.

I will not be recommending this product based on what I see!

polybear

Thanks for the reply.

Furts wrote: »

I have briefly viewed the website and link. I am not convinced.

I will not be recommending this product based on what I see!

Any particular reason why please - am I missing something? The roof system has LABC approval, so it can't be too bad, surely?

polybear

Furts

Hi polybear

The sales pitch is smoke and mirrors. "The Law has changed......" As I see it conservatories were never subject to the Building Regulations - provided the conditions mentioned were met. This has never changed, so the truth is distorted.

The government wanted to put conservatories into the Building Regulations, but backed off after pressure was exerted. So Guardian are really saying...

"Conservatories were never subject to the Regulations, and to ensure this remained there must be a transparent roof. We are now removing that roof ....and because conservatories were never subject to the regulations there is nothing the authorities can do about it. They may challenge us, if they have nothing better to do with their time, but this industry will fight them to victory just as it did with the government."

Then there is the link to check the validity of the sales pitch. Click on it and you will find it does not exist. A rank amateur could have done better than this.

Tiles have BBA Approval for use...precisely which Approval number on which certificate for use where and on what?

Roofs have LABC Approval when conservatories do not have even have approval?

I am sorry but this does not make sense...and that is before I mention fixings, restraint, installation, cost ....

Please forgive my cynicism. You have posted in good faith and I am the only reply you have received. You will not be able to make an informed decision based on just my comments. As I said, I do not have experience of these roofs but that is largely because I do not believe in them and would definitely not recommend them to clients.

Portly_Pig

I watched one being installed a couple of weeks back.

Roofing batons onto the conservatory roof frame and then what seemed like plastic tiles on top. Don't know what they did inside but that was less work that the outside.

ukjoel

Interesting thread. I guess these will have better thermal properties than the glass but how much better I don't know. A conservatory will still leak lots of heat through the windows.

What size conservatory are you getting a quote on and what does the quote work out at?

polybear

Many thanks for the reply - I've added some responses below:

Furts wrote: »

Hi polybear

The sales pitch is smoke and mirrors. "The Law has changed......" As I see it conservatories were never subject to the Building Regulations - provided the conditions mentioned were met. This has never changed, so the truth is distorted.
I still have a copy of my local council questionnaire from when I originally built my conservatory back in 1996. It mentions: "If the answer to either of these questions is YES, then building regulation approval is necessary for the construction of a conservatory, otherwise it is exempt": Question 1 - Will the building have an opaque roof?

The government wanted to put conservatories into the Building Regulations, but backed off after pressure was exerted. So Guardian are really saying...

"Conservatories were never subject to the Regulations, and to ensure this remained there must be a transparent roof. We are now removing that roof ....and because conservatories were never subject to the regulations there is nothing the authorities can do about it. They may challenge us, if they have nothing better to do with their time, but this industry will fight them to victory just as it did with the government."

Then there is the link to check the validity of the sales pitch. Click on it and you will find it does not exist. A rank amateur could have done better than this.
The link is indeed out of date, but it does include "A copy of the page you are looking for may be found in The National Archives". Clicking on this link takes you to a 14 page document regarding changes to the Building Regulations 2010. Section C25 does state:

C25: Where a conservatory or porch does not meet all of the above conditions it is not exempt and Approved Documents L1B and L2B give
guidance on what would be reasonable in meeting the energy efficiency provisions from non-exempt conservatories and porches. Building Control
Bodies will want to note that the definition of conservatory in terms of
percentage translucent material as set out in previous editions of the Approved Documents no longer applies.

Tiles have BBA Approval for use...precisely which Approval number on which certificate for use where and on what?
Two types of tile are offered - Metrotile or Tapco Slate, both of which have BBA approval; the BBA relevant documents give all relevant details - from handling, storage, installation, minimum roof pitch, roof substrate, tiles per sq. metre etc. I've checked the relevant tile manufacture websites and also spoken with them on the telephone - the conservatory roof supplier is well known to them (and not for the wrong reasons!)

Roofs have LABC Approval when conservatories do not have even have approval?
Because the roof becomes opaque and not clear, so the local Buildings Control Depts. get very interested when conducting such a conversion. By having LABC approval (I've checked the certificate) this helps considerably with Buildings Control (I'm in the process of this with my own B.C. Dept at the moment - because of the approval it does indeed seem that it is merely a case of "write us a letter with details etc. and it should be fine - they might charge me £130 odd though )

I am sorry but this does not make sense...and that is before I mention fixings, restraint, installation, cost ....
Unfortunately the alternative is re-roof with plastic again, and suffer a cold conservatory in winter (or big heating bills) and an oven in the summer. And regular maintenance. Or build an extension....
Installation is straightforward, with the existing roof being removed and the new one fitted (felted, but not tiled) usually in the first day. I've seen videos and understand the roof system to know this is a reasonable target. As for cost - my conservatory is lean-to style, 4.4m wide and 2.7m deep; the cost is currently coming in at 5.1K (the same components excluding insulated plasterboard would come in at 3K for a DIY fit). Components for a GOOD plastic roof replacement would easily cost 1.5 -2K (i.e. 35mm thick plastic) - this was an initial idea before I came across tiled systems.

Please forgive my cynicism. You have posted in good faith and I am the only reply you have received. You will not be able to make an informed decision based on just my comments. As I said, I do not have experience of these roofs but that is largely because I do not believe in them and would definitely not recommend them to clients.

All cynicism welcome - it helps me make a judged decision and spot anything I may have missed! Many thanks.

polybear

p.s. Your last paragraph suggests you may be a roofer and/or conservatory installer/supplier perhaps?

polybear

Portly_Pig wrote: »

I watched one being installed a couple of weeks back.

Roofing batons onto the conservatory roof frame and then what seemed like plastic tiles on top. Don't know what they did inside but that was less work that the outside.

Thanks for the reply. It sounds like a similar idea but perhaps not the same system? The Guardian roof isn't battened, but instead uses exterior grade roofing ply and roofing membrane beneath the tiles. Tiles are either Metrotile (Aluzinc galvanised steel, with a stone coating; 40 year weatherproof warranty) or Tapco Slate (plastic, unbreakable, 50 year warranty, originally developed and used widely in the USA).
Inside work takes as long/longer than the outside - insulating, plasterboarding, plaster skimming, roof lights if required etc.

polybear

polybear

ukjoel wrote: »

Interesting thread. I guess these will have better thermal properties than the glass but how much better I don't know. A conservatory will still leak lots of heat through the windows.

What size conservatory are you getting a quote on and what does the quote work out at?

Thanks for the reply; The roof has a U value of 0.18. I've found the following info regarding u values, which should help put this into context:

U Value & Material
6.0 - 5.6 Single glazing - dependant on type
3.3 Double glazing - standard
3.3 3-Wall Polycarbonate
2.0 Multi-Wall Polycarbonate
1.80 Double glazing - Low ‘E’
1.2 Solar Control Glass Roof
1.50 - 0.5 House walls - dependant on age and materials
0.35 Building Regulations requirement for new build roof

As for price: Currently 4.4m by 2.7m roof, coming in at £5K ish fitted & plastered.

HTH

polybear